Anyone who cares about swtor and its pvp should read this post.. points at Devs.

Do we pvp for fun, or do we pvp so we can get better gear, so THEN we can pvp for fun?
Do people enjoy the 200 hour grind, while getting torn apart by players with BM gear.

The way i see it, in pvp everyone should have the same gear.

Once you get to 50 :
Each class has 3 sets of gear, tank, dps, healing or whatever. When you enter a WZ, you pick which set you want to use. Thats it. No upgrades, no med packs or stims, no pve gear.

As a PVP only player, i want to pvp for fun, not because i am grinding for better gear.

All i want is an even playing field. Where teamwork, and skill is what determines results, not gear.

Also, with a sytem like this, when classes need balancing for pvp, they simply tweak the stats on that classes's gear. Rather than messing around with the actual class mechanics. (which effects pve)

BW thinks they will keep me playing longer, by making me constanlty grind for gear. This is what drives me away.The thing that will keep me playing, is warzones that are evenly matched. (gear wise)

I am not going to get bored, and quit because there is no progression. Every game of pvp is different, all they would need, is a few more maps.

LOTRO's old system of Comparable-Incomparable gear would have been a good system to build upon. At least in my own opinion.

Until I played the 1-49 bracket last night after a month of fighting Expertise geared 50s I would never have believed just how much Expertise impacted the PvP experience. I don’t know what the answer is, but Expertise gives too much of an edge allowing less skilled players to roll less geared players. Maybe if Expertise were available on the 20 and 40 gear, it would remove some of the disparity?

I'm probably missing something here, but...

You enter a PvE instance with 7 other players, you all need to equipped appropriately. As your gear gets better you can fight better bosses.

In PvP terms - you don't pick your allies, and you don't pick which 'boss' you get to fight against.

So in what way is 'gear progression' appropriate for PvP? Surely the logical requirement is only to remove any scaling of PvE equipment in PvP?

that's sort of what i was getting at. by debuffing pve gear when the player initiates combat, it levels the playing field in regard to pve vs pvp gear, it allows expertise to be removed and therefor levels the playing field between all pvpers while still maintaining a small amount of progression (going from no gear to battlemaster) for those that feel it's needed.

its a video game get over yourself... if they gave me the choice to go murder an orphanage i would burn it to the ground and have some baby breakfast so i wouldn't have to go through the work of burrying the bodies. Also you OBVIOUSLY haven't rolled a sith character because i do some EVIL **** to people ALOT andi love it.

go play COD:MW3 KTHXBY3

As a pvper i don't want the AI script farmers to be anything but a minor annoyance in my WZ if you didn't put in the time to get pvp armor then you shouldn't be on par with me in pvp just like i don't expect to jump into your raid group to kill something that you've memorized all the moves to... pve is **** leave pve and pvp seperate

You're right. There is no logical reason for it. Except that you have to make sure that the PvE gear doesn't outdamage the PvP gear so that PvP players are forced to PvE to compete. You can achieve that by either buffing the PvP gear or - as you suggested - debuffing the PvE gear.

But the other reason is that timesinks like item grind with endless tiers of bigger numbers is such a cheap way for developers around REAL content. It keeps you busy for months, doesn't it?

A PvP stat is not a problem in and of itself.

A PvP stat that progresses with higher tiers is. If the PvP stat was there purely to separate pvp gear form pve gear (original design decision) then that would be great. Just give all pvp gear pieces 100 expertise and be done with it so that when you pvp, everyone has the same expertise.

But, we have a two-fold problem. Battlemaster gear has much higher stats on it than normal gear, so already the person in BM has a massive advantage over someone in crafted/greens etc. Someone in BM with high stats already does perhaps 10-20% more damage and takes 10-20% less damage due to higher armour, more defence, more shield chance, higher damage rating etc.

Then, that advantage is amplified by expertise. Someone in BM set, who already does 10-20% more damage due purely to stats, also then does an extra 10% damage on top of that due to expertise advantage.

Lets say you are fairly fresh to 50 using crafted blue gear (rating 116) with no expertise. You come up against someone in full champion gear (rating 136).

The person in champion gear has more DPS (extra 20 rating or ~17%), more armour, more health, more defences etc. The fresh 50 is already at a huge disadvantage. Then, add in expertise. Champion does 10% more dps, so you're approaching a 30% advantage on dps. They are taking less damage for a massive boost to survivability.


For most people, this is just too much to overcome. The only real option, once this gear gap exists, is to grind pve so that you can achieve similar stats to champion gear/bm gear so that expertise becomes the only advantage. But, grinding pve sucks, its very time consuming and has more bugs than pvp.