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Bag RNG System: Aging Poorly


Radiozo's Avatar


Radiozo
01.20.2012 , 02:02 AM | #161
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghingis View Post
Yea, although you get BM commendations, so you can choose what gear you want.
I honestly dont know why people are whining this much, its a luck based system, just like raiding is. Its not like its HARD to attain gear, and if you are better skilled then the other player, the small difference between someone with abit of luck and someone without it, is extremely slim and wont change the outcome. Unless its against a geared Operative.
It is hard on low pop server where the pvp is non-existant.
Name and class: Ozo - Sith Sorceror Level 50
Server: ICE Breaker
Guild: Troika

Ghingis's Avatar


Ghingis
01.20.2012 , 02:04 AM | #162
Quote: Originally Posted by Radiozo View Post
It is hard on low pop server where the pvp is non-existant.
That has nothing to do with how the system works though, thats a server issue that needs to be sorted.
Ghingis Kenobi ft. Darth Xeriyo <- rofl.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...011402055.jpg/

JackKerras's Avatar


JackKerras
01.20.2012 , 02:10 AM | #163
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghingis View Post
Yea, although you get BM commendations, so you can choose what gear you want.
I honestly dont know why people are whining this much, its a luck based system, just like raiding is. Its not like its HARD to attain gear, and if you are better skilled then the other player, the small difference between someone with abit of luck and someone without it, is extremely slim and wont change the outcome. Unless its against a geared Operative.
Raiding is only a bit luck based. If you go into a raid with a group, you get gear and someone will be able to use it. Sometimes you get dicked (and I honestly think they should sniff out who has gear already and NOT drop those pieces if no one else needs them) but most times you get some gear for your buddies. Your guild, as a guild, progresses. It's group content and just about every run makes your group more powerful until you're quite close to the end and start getting duplicate drops.

Frankly, I think it should ALL be token pieces. Hand tokens for appropriate-tier gear out to the folks who need them, trade 'em in. One token for one piece of gear, a few drops per boss. That way guilds can decide the way their group progresses, helping their DPS if they're missing a check, beefing up their tank if he's too hard to heal, or the like.

Luck at the endgame is -bad news-. It leads to folks seeing eight pairs of the same pants drop, or White Lion gear dropping CONSTANTLY in every instance despite the fact that I had never even grouped with a White Lion.

Luck is a poor mechanic. Always was, always will be. It should be relegated to Korean F2P games, not used in modern triple-A MMORPGs. Poker is not interesting because of luck, it's interesting because of tells and bluffs. Go is not based on luck. Chess is not based on luck. Games with real lasting power are based on skill and thought and effort.

Eliminating luck from the picture and creating an environment where competent play and personal performance has actual merit -is the point-. Better players gear faster. Worse players spend longer gearing. Not 'oh hey check it out my first five bags I got five different tier pieces' while a guildie has opened thirty-five and has seven gloves and twelve implants.

Ghingis's Avatar


Ghingis
01.20.2012 , 02:14 AM | #164
Quote: Originally Posted by JackKerras View Post
Raiding is only a bit luck based. If you go into a raid with a group, you get gear and someone will be able to use it. Sometimes you get dicked (and I honestly think they should sniff out who has gear already and NOT drop those pieces if no one else needs them) but most times you get some gear for your buddies. Your guild, as a guild, progresses. It's group content and just about every run makes your group more powerful until you're quite close to the end and start getting duplicate drops.

Frankly, I think it should ALL be token pieces. Hand tokens for appropriate-tier gear out to the folks who need them, trade 'em in. One token for one piece of gear, a few drops per boss. That way guilds can decide the way their group progresses, helping their DPS if they're missing a check, beefing up their tank if he's too hard to heal, or the like.

Luck at the endgame is -bad news-. It leads to folks seeing eight pairs of the same pants drop, or White Lion gear dropping CONSTANTLY in every instance despite the fact that I had never even grouped with a White Lion.

Luck is a poor mechanic. Always was, always will be. It should be relegated to Korean F2P games, not used in modern triple-A MMORPGs. Poker is not interesting because of luck, it's interesting because of tells and bluffs. Go is not based on luck. Chess is not based on luck. Games with real lasting power are based on skill and thought and effort.

Eliminating luck from the picture and creating an environment where competent play and personal performance has actual merit -is the point-. Better players gear faster. Worse players spend longer gearing. Not 'oh hey check it out my first five bags I got five different tier pieces' while a guildie has opened thirty-five and has seven gloves and twelve implants.
Then they would have to change the system to something like WoW had though, else people would get geared way too fast.

And even if you are unlucky in this game, gearing up will still be quicker here then in WoW PvP. I will agree to some extent that the RNG is dumb, but I do not think it needs changing because gearing up is still extremely quick, noone can say otherwise.
Ghingis Kenobi ft. Darth Xeriyo <- rofl.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...011402055.jpg/

JackKerras's Avatar


JackKerras
01.20.2012 , 02:26 AM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghingis View Post
Then they would have to change the system to something like WoW had though, else people would get geared way too fast.

And even if you are unlucky in this game, gearing up will still be quicker here then in WoW PvP. I will agree to some extent that the RNG is dumb, but I do not think it needs changing because gearing up is still extremely quick, noone can say otherwise.
Gearing up would still take several weeks in my system. You can set a number of medals yhat requires more hours be spent in PvP; it'd be easy to change my numbers so that 120 DPS Medals were needed, which means that no matter what, you have to hit 300k in PvP for sixty solid games (75k, then 300k, possibly with 5k crit). And your performance in each game would be important; you couldn't just slouch your way through a bunch, win one by good fortune, and get a bag. You'd have to be making a real effort to get your damage up good and high every level if you're a DPS, or healing if you're a healer, or whatever role you choose. The aforementioned example could very well be sixteen hours of gameplay for a single piece; I think -two workdays- worth of time spent making such a specific effort is worth a piece of gear, especially considering there would be -ten- of them.

Still, I think the gear should be of lesser importance in terms of getting the pieces; the rank should be what really shows you for what you are, and once you -can- use that kind of gear, access to it should be something you can make positive, simple steps towards. Only 65 gear is available now (right?) but there are a hundred ranks, and as they add new gearsets, the folks who have spent their time and effort ranking up -should- be able to get those gearsets quicker than the ones who have to level up to the new gear before they can begin.

That's the thing. Momentum. Making real steps towards real advancement instead of getting a bag and -maybe- it'll have something that's worth a damn in it.

Ghingis's Avatar


Ghingis
01.20.2012 , 02:30 AM | #166
Quote: Originally Posted by JackKerras View Post
Gearing up would still take several weeks in my system. You can set a number of medals yhat requires more hours be spent in PvP; it'd be easy to change my numbers so that 120 DPS Medals were needed, which means that no matter what, you have to hit 300k in PvP for sixty solid games (75k, then 300k, possibly with 5k crit). And your performance in each game would be important; you couldn't just slouch your way through a bunch, win one by good fortune, and get a bag. You'd have to be making a real effort to get your damage up good and high every level if you're a DPS, or healing if you're a healer, or whatever role you choose. The aforementioned example could very well be sixteen hours of gameplay for a single piece; I think -two workdays- worth of time spent making such a specific effort is worth a piece of gear, especially considering there would be -ten- of them.

Still, I think the gear should be of lesser importance in terms of getting the pieces; the rank should be what really shows you for what you are, and once you -can- use that kind of gear, access to it should be something you can make positive, simple steps towards. Only 65 gear is available now (right?) but there are a hundred ranks, and as they add new gearsets, the folks who have spent their time and effort ranking up -should- be able to get those gearsets quicker than the ones who have to level up to the new gear before they can begin.

That's the thing. Momentum. Making real steps towards real advancement instead of getting a bag and -maybe- it'll have something that's worth a damn in it.
I can already see why this system you posted will not work.
Everyone would just run around and not go for any objectives at all, just try to get their medals.

Especially the people at valor rank 60+, I would personally never touch an objective til I have the 5k hit medal and the 300k damage medal.

Would just ruin WZ's even more.
Ghingis Kenobi ft. Darth Xeriyo <- rofl.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...011402055.jpg/

JackKerras's Avatar


JackKerras
01.20.2012 , 02:34 AM | #167
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghingis View Post
I can already see why this system you posted will not work.
Everyone would just run around and not go for any objectives at all, just try to get their medals.

Especially the people at valor rank 60+, I would personally never touch an objective til I have the 5k hit medal and the 300k damage medal.

Would just ruin WZ's even more.
Bull.

Everyone does that anyway.

And I specifically laid out in the plan I had earlier that one of the major contributors (in fact the largest numerical requirement in the quest info I posted) would be -doing the objectives- in PvP, NOT getting the medals. DPS medals would be in there, and I -only included them- because it would be a simple, low-programming-impact way to encourage DPS classes to DPS. It is perfectly viable to hit 300k damage -while- defending a point or running after a huttball carrier or hunting down the enemy's carrier.

If I had my druthers, the entire medal system would be reworked, but that's asking for a lot more manhours of effort. Hell, if I had my druthers, the entire progression curve from 10 to 49 in PvP would be drastically different and more rewarding.

I put together the plan that I did because it takes one intern a full workday, maybe two, to script these quests and put them in place. It doesn't need the lead designer. It doesn't even need a senior or regular-old designer. If I knew the language they script their quests in, I could type it up in Notepad and -email- it to them, and I am a long and crooked step from being an actual coder.

This being a light, temporary relief from the fury of opening 30 bags with no gear is the point. This being a way to encourage people to play the classes they roll and participate meaningfully in PvP is part of the point, but this is -definitely- a quick fix, not a lasting system overhaul.

Darth_Vampirius's Avatar


Darth_Vampirius
01.20.2012 , 02:36 AM | #168
Great ideas, OP. I am going to flag this for sticky and give it a good rating!
Quote:
//We have seen the argument of Skill vs. Gear throughout the existence of MMO PvP and we are of the opinion both are good for an RPG, falling on one side of the scale (gear has no purpose in PvP vs. gear is the only thing that matters in PvP) is not desirable.//

JackKerras's Avatar


JackKerras
01.20.2012 , 02:37 AM | #169
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Vampirius View Post
Great ideas, OP. I am going to flag this for sticky and give it a good rating!
Thanks much, I appreciate that! Getting a sticky with this thing would be awesome; the more attention, the better!

Kognos's Avatar


Kognos
01.20.2012 , 02:49 AM | #170
You have my vote. Only valor lvl 47 but at least 35-40 bags in and still no set piece but the centurion legs i bought. Double weapons, triple implants and ears, triple offhand all a big let down.

I can't help but think the bag system was designed to be painful, they emergency fixed ilum to make sure it sucked too. Don't get me wrong i love the game but if they keep chasing people off with bad design decisions there won't be anyone left to play with or against.