Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

In-Combat Revive & Healers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
In-Combat Revive & Healers

Bwice's Avatar


Bwice
01.19.2012 , 04:06 PM | #1
As you may very well know Jedi Counselors/Sith Inquisitors and Smugglers/Imperial Agents have the ability to revive fallen teammates when killed. However, these are not the only classes in Swtor that have healing specs in their skill trees. The Troopers/Bounty Hunters are able to choose to heal as well, even though they have a different healing style than the first two mentioned. Jedi Counselors and their mirror are masters of AoE healing as Smugglers and their mirror possess a knack for HoT healing. While Troopers and Bounty Hunters are based around single person healing and increasing that single heal. All seemly are healers of their own style but healers all the same. This all leads to my question, why does the Trooper/Bounty Hunter not have the ability to revive a teammate in-combat?

Thus, far I have not seen a thread post point this out to the Developers. Why did you not give all healers in-combat revives? I am personally a full Commando Combat Medic at level 50 and have run every Flashpoint and Operations on Normal & Hard Mode. Honestly, I have found healing single targets as this class difficult but not impossible. The Combat Medic is a pre-casting healer rather than a reactionary one. This can be quite fun and is a different form of play that I have never seen before. One of my guild mates describes it as a Tank Healer but for the whole group.

Sounds great! But in truth it is not all sunshine, as I find guilds running eight man operations with the other two healing classes because they are better at keeping everyone up. Their HoTs and AoEs can be more reliable than a single target healer. An example of their healing is at the Final Boss fight Soa where you leap down to the lower platforms. A Counselor Sage can quickly heal the group from falling damage with a placed AoE heal than a Commando Combat Medic trying to use single heals and their three person AoE heal that knowingly isn’t very strong. Also in fights a Sage is able to drop an AoE heal and continue healing targets that are not in the range of their AoE. Combat Medics do not possess such ability. Smugglers are able to use their four persons AoE/HoT and heal to better effectiveness than the Combat Medic.

To knock the Combat Medic down another notch is the fact that they do not have the ability to in-combat revive at any time. One does not want to pull their DPS off a fight to revive a teammate when there is a class that is able to do their own job. A healer is just that, so one expects them to be able to bring their players from death. It seems obvious that the developers wished for healing specs to revive but they left it out for one class and their mirror.

Arguments have been made that because the Combat Medic has heavy armour they have an advantage over the other healers. That’s not here or there, a healer class that can’t revive in-combat doesn’t matter if they have heavy armour. Armour doesn’t make up for another player. Healers in PvE shouldn’t be getting hit no matter their armour.
After sending in an In Game ticket I spoke with a Swtor representative that was also unaware of this imbalance of reviving ability. Their first response was that “Counselors and Inquisitors have a in combat revive because they can focus the force”, to which my response was questioning the fact that a spacefaring trader would be able to “focus the force”. Their response was confusion about the fact that smugglers could in-combat revive, at first denying that fact that they could. I informed them of the ability “Heartrigger Patch” and they came back after a bit of time that “Smugglers are able to get such equipment from the black market that a trooper can not”. To that I wondered why a smuggler would be able to get better equipment than a Major in the Republic, Leader of Havoc Squad, and Savior of the Republic.

In all basic sense there is no reason for the Combat Medic and the Bounty Hunter’s mirror to not have an in-combat revive. It is not game breaking in any way, as it only makes all the healing classes equal in raiding. In no way will this make the Combat Medic any better than the other healing specs at healing, as it is the other classes in a team are leading. Either by developer means or by minor errors such as the difference of amount of targets healed by the Combat Medic’s AoE heals.

Useless Combat Medic Ability: Frontline Physician an ability that reduces the out of combat revive cooldown by 100%. When a group has wiped or after a fight where a teammate was unable to be revived, there is no rush on reviving. Anyone can revive so it is not like the Combat Medic is the only one running around reviving. It was a unique ability to give but has no actual game use. Never, have I ever been forced to use it. This talent could easily be swapped with a In-Combat Revive and moved to a higher level.

Thank you Bioware and Developers for reading this and I am sorry for the lengthy writing. I did not want to throw out a single paragraph that was smashing a straw soldier. I am a longer term gamer and understand that Swtor is still new so I am more than willing to understand it is still going under changes.
Rhedd Aquila - Jung Ma "I expect the best and I give the best. Here's the beer. Here's the entertainment. Now have fun. That's an order."
-=Crimson Elite=-

Kraylessa's Avatar


Kraylessa
01.19.2012 , 04:13 PM | #2
That was a very long post to describe a pretty simple problem. I play a Commando Combat Medic as well and I would love to have an in-combat rez. That being said, it's not the end of the world that I don't have one. I assume Bioware had their reasons for implementing it the way they did.
If you stab me in the back, I'll shoot you in the face.

Bwice's Avatar


Bwice
01.19.2012 , 08:35 PM | #3
Reserved
Rhedd Aquila - Jung Ma "I expect the best and I give the best. Here's the beer. Here's the entertainment. Now have fun. That's an order."
-=Crimson Elite=-

Dreamborn's Avatar


Dreamborn
01.19.2012 , 10:03 PM | #4
Seems to me that they just didnt realise that the 3rd healing class didnt have this in-combat revive, and as you mentioned, gave you one excuse after another to justify why the other 2 had the ability...so purely on a "lore" basis they are effectively saying that the other 2 are better...incombat revive is balance breaking...now that I know this, it automatically puts the 2 healing classes that have it above the 3rd that doesnt...permanently...

As a side note...they said the smuggler got the incombat revive due to access to black market tech ?...are you serious ?...that is actually a VERY VERY ignorant thing to say and only says to me that either you are wrong...Bounty Hunters - into merc has access to all the illegal black market gadgets so how does that argument stand !?...like I said...they messed up, and are now just tryin to justify it...

Bottom line...the 3rd healer class ie bounty hunter mercs, and troopers where allready sub-par with their single target heals...and now on top of that they dont have an in combat revive = FAIL....


How can BW be in such denial of something this obvious...

Bwice's Avatar


Bwice
01.19.2012 , 10:32 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kraylessa View Post
That was a very long post to describe a pretty simple problem. I play a Commando Combat Medic as well and I would love to have an in-combat rez. That being said, it's not the end of the world that I don't have one. I assume Bioware had their reasons for implementing it the way they did.
The more information I give the better the Developers may be able to understand my post. Simple problem but a much more complex situation to actually get fixed/changed. Obviously, it isn't the end of the world but it is imbalanced.


Quote: Originally Posted by Dreamborn View Post
Seems to me that they just didnt realise that the 3rd healing class didnt have this in-combat revive, and as you mentioned, gave you one excuse after another to justify why the other 2 had the ability...so purely on a "lore" basis they are effectively saying that the other 2 are better...incombat revive is balance breaking...now that I know this, it automatically puts the 2 healing classes that have it above the 3rd that doesnt...permanently...
Being a representative and not a Developer I give the person a bit more leeway. Surely they should know the subject material they are working on but Swtor is a big game. The lore responses were a different way at answering to the ticket but it was better than saying "Hey, do you see it in your ability section? No? Then you don't get it because we said so." Obviously though I agree all healing classes should have a in-combat revive.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dreamborn View Post
As a side note...they said the smuggler got the incombat revive due to access to black market tech ?...are you serious ?...that is actually a VERY VERY ignorant thing to say and only says to me that either you are wrong...Bounty Hunters - into merc has access to all the illegal black market gadgets so how does that argument stand !?...like I said...they messed up, and are now just tryin to justify it...

Bottom line...the 3rd healer class ie bounty hunter mercs, and troopers where allready sub-par with their single target heals...and now on top of that they dont have an in combat revive = FAIL....
I didn't even think about the Bounty Hunter having access to the black market. Good point! In all this is why I'm here. Hoping people will post comments and maybe this thread will blast off. I would be beyond pleased you see a Developer comment!

Thanks for all comments!
Rhedd Aquila - Jung Ma "I expect the best and I give the best. Here's the beer. Here's the entertainment. Now have fun. That's an order."
-=Crimson Elite=-

Ronamo's Avatar


Ronamo
01.19.2012 , 10:39 PM | #6
Quote:
Jedi Counselors and their mirror are masters of AoE healing
One AOE heal with a cast time, a cooldown and an 8m zone of effect does not a king make, regardless of the number of targets it hits.
The Duluoz Legacy || Krayt Dragon
Benway | Cassidy Seward | Bul'lee Lebris Ti'Jean

Bwice's Avatar


Bwice
01.19.2012 , 11:36 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Ronamo View Post
One AOE heal with a cast time, a cooldown and an 8m zone of effect does not (make) a king, regardless of the number of targets it hits.
^

Comparably to any other healers in the game yes they are. A great example would be on Warzone matches such as Voidstar. The class is able to easily rake up the most healing, all the while tactically guarding their door. You are more than welcome to disagree. This should all just be seen as my personal opinion mixed with digital fact.
Rhedd Aquila - Jung Ma "I expect the best and I give the best. Here's the beer. Here's the entertainment. Now have fun. That's an order."
-=Crimson Elite=-

Dreamborn's Avatar


Dreamborn
01.20.2012 , 02:41 AM | #8
Having mentioned this in another thread ie Mercs/troopers not getting an in combat rez - I got some funny responses =

-Palladins from wow are great without an incombat rez....!?!?!...."I never played wow"
-Lord of the rings online = The captain "an off healer" got TWO incombat rez, one rezing TWO people..but he is tanky and is off heals are great...<<<< "what !?!?" I did play lotro, but whats an OFF HEALER got to do with anything...are mercs/troopers off healers now ?

On a more serious note :

It seems like people are arguing that since the first 2 healing classes are LIGHT armoured they get to be slightly better in this respect ie AOE + incombat rez, where as the troopers/mercs are to be tanky healers, and therfore only single target heals AND no incombat rez...is it balanced ?...is the heavy armour a fair trade off ?...I dunno....what would a raid / heroic group want given the choice...

Main healers are NOT meant to be incombat taking any damage anyway + mercs/troopers cant waste heat/amo on dps, so....meh....If I had a choice of a merc/trooper or any of the other two healing classes, I would take ANY of the other two over the merc...and the more people learn about this "little" lack of incombat rez, the more I think we will see this trend...but not for a while, as the content is easy enough for now...but when one person goes down, and having the power to stop a group wipe, by bringing the fallen up while the tank does his job, or the off tank steps in to allow for the main tank to be brought up = too much of a benefit not to have...so what if you healer has heavy armour...thats no help if someone else falls...

Raltar's Avatar


Raltar
01.20.2012 , 02:51 AM | #9
I don't think this should be viewed as a healer issue(as you seem to want it to be for some reason) as a Sage specced as DPS can use it as well. Plus, it's pretty damn hard to use the combat rez when healing because if there is enough damage going out to get someone killed, you will not have enough time to battle rez someone.

Dreamborn's Avatar


Dreamborn
01.20.2012 , 03:01 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Raltar View Post
I don't think this should be viewed as a healer issue(as you seem to want it to be for some reason) as a Sage specced as DPS can use it as well. Plus, it's pretty damn hard to use the combat rez when healing because if there is enough damage going out to get someone killed, you will not have enough time to battle rez someone.
The reason it is viewed as a healer issue is because it relates to 3 classes and their mirrors, which are meant to be the 3 classes which can become the main healers of the game/group...The fact that the 2 classes which get the incombat rez regardless of what spec you have going at the time is irrelevant as your still talking about the same class...

As for having time to rez someone in-combat...if you have played any number of other games, rpg's, mmo's etc, AND your being honest, most of the time providing your group isnt being overrun, you will find a window of opportunity to rez the fallen in combat...Especially in large raids / groups...And for the record = I have been in many situations in this game, where in combat rez was very easy to do.

The whole point of this discussion is that a main healer, without an incombat rez, automatically falls below other main healers who do have this capability, UNLESS they have something else to make up for it...In this case it seems to be the heavy armour, which in my oppinion for a main healer is not as good as having an in combat rez - also = I dont have a healer merc/trooper...I have a DPS merc, but out of principle, main healers in pretty much all games always get an in combat rez...

In this game = 3 main healers...one doesnt have in combat heals AND is single target heals...who you gonna choose ?...be honest...nuff said...