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Tank stats in PVP


VenomCoil's Avatar


VenomCoil
01.17.2012 , 04:43 PM | #251
Each of the Tanking trees has atleast one talent that procs on Shield/Defense normally to provide class resource. In PvE this works, in PvP it does not; too many player abilities are Force/Tech .

The solution is relatively simple:
  • Allow tanks to Shield Force/Tech attacks for half* their normal absorb level.
  • Allow tanks to deflect/dodge attack for half* damage instead of full avoidance.


* The exact % can be balanced out such that tanks are not raid bosses, but do benefit from tanking gear and talents in PvP.

Venrale's Avatar


Venrale
01.17.2012 , 05:09 PM | #252
Quote: Originally Posted by VenomCoil View Post
Each of the Tanking trees has atleast one talent that procs on Shield/Defense normally to provide class resource. In PvE this works, in PvP it does not; too many player abilities are Force/Tech .

The solution is relatively simple:
  • Allow tanks to Shield Force/Tech attacks for half* their normal absorb level.
  • Allow tanks to deflect/dodge attack for half* damage instead of full avoidance.


* The exact % can be balanced out such that tanks are not raid bosses, but do benefit from tanking gear and talents in PvP.
I have my stockstrike reset all the time in pvp which is a shield proc, ya know why?? because once the moron skill spammer runs out of energy he has to use skills that apply to my shield ohhhh so hard to understand... im sorry but I would never die if shielding worked on everything even if they did take the say u have 40%+ and half it, it would still be too op... perhaps its just my class as a Vanguard and the amount of dmg reduction passives I have that allow my other mits to mix properly with the shield absorb but as it is I can absorb an insane amount of dmg and does my shield proc as much, no but thats only because your playing other people who understand how bypass other classes strengths

dynamitepop's Avatar


dynamitepop
01.17.2012 , 05:25 PM | #253
Quote: Originally Posted by Venrale View Post
I dont see the issue most people have with this mechanic.. here is why

most of the skills complained about will drastically reduce your energy when spammed, so if you have a good healer(which is necessary in group oriented pvp) they are going to have to use their "auto attack" as most people have labeled it in order to regen and try and noob spam you again, which is where the defense/shield/absorb kick in.. at this point your prolly low in health and if your any other class can be killed easy with the basic attack but your not because your defense and shield/absorb gives you time to kite for heals.
Most of the dmg types are mitigated fairly heavy through your armor except for elemental which if you run tank spec with Ion shield and put points into tactics line for power armour your elemental mit is at 9% which goes up to 19% with a sage or shadow in group.

I have almost full champ gear and can hold off 3-4 people with just 1 good healer EASY and ussually end up killing all of them unless they have a tank aswell.. alot of this game is a gear check and people who have equal gear to me have a VERY hard time killing me, a tank should not be invincable but they should be harder to kill than any other class which a fully geared tank is.
The point is anyone with high expertise and a healer could do the same. As a shield spec vanguard I'm only bringing to the table 9% damage reduction through my talent points, which is great but all damage specs can bring some damage reduction through talent points AND bring in much more dps through their properly itemized gear and the synergy their talent trees have with their attacks. Tanks just have a few more % of damage reduction but a lot of wasted skill points and gear itemazation points that would be best ( in pvp ) spent elsewhere.

Venrale's Avatar


Venrale
01.17.2012 , 05:39 PM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by dynamitepop View Post
The point is anyone with high expertise and a healer could do the same. As a shield spec vanguard I'm only bringing to the table 9% damage reduction through my talent points, which is great but all damage specs can bring some damage reduction through talent points AND bring in much more dps through their properly itemized gear and the synergy their talent trees have with their attacks. Tanks just have a few more % of damage reduction but a lot of wasted skill points and gear itemazation points that would be best ( in pvp ) spent elsewhere.
I agree that some of the gears stats should be changed but I disagree that the shielding mechanic should work on everything, and not anyone with high expertise and a healer can do the same thing as a tank with high expertise and a healer... say its a 2v2 situation both sides have same expertise, they arnt going to be able to kill my healer because im guarding they are more than likely going to blow threw their skill energy very fast trying to do so leaving them using their basic attack to build up to do that burst dps again, and while they do that if they are attacking me im mitigating most of it with defense/shield and if they go for my healer they arnt doing enough dmg to burn his heals and my guard.. combine that with my +5% dmg i get from guarding the healer I do plenty of dmg to kill their healer first.

XenonParsec's Avatar


XenonParsec
01.17.2012 , 05:46 PM | #255
So the last tank QQ thread spawned another one?

Dear lord.

You guys aren't getting a response because you are asking for ez mode.

I know I know, since you actually have to use cooldowns and abilities to be tanky in PvP instead of just stand there, something must be "broken."

Sad. And Bad.

Trujan's Avatar


Trujan
01.17.2012 , 05:46 PM | #256
Its a tough one.
I love the tanking class, taunt for damage reduction, guard, pulls.
And i am happy to not be able to shield much, as long as, HALF MY TREE DOESN@T BLOOMIN GIVE INCREASED SHIELD CHANCE!
Give me more mitigation, higher damage, just give me anything other than a useless stat.

Abatement's Avatar


Abatement
01.17.2012 , 05:49 PM | #257
Fact tanks have procs off shield chances and since more then 60% of attacks ignore shield and dodge they are losing those procs.
ಠ_ಠ
Really?

VenomCoil's Avatar


VenomCoil
01.17.2012 , 05:52 PM | #258
Quote: Originally Posted by Venrale View Post
I have my stockstrike reset all the time in pvp which is a shield proc, ya know why?? because once the moron skill spammer runs out of energy he has to use skills that apply to my shield ohhhh so hard to understand... im sorry but I would never die if shielding worked on everything even if they did take the say u have 40%+ and half it, it would still be too op... perhaps its just my class as a Vanguard and the amount of dmg reduction passives I have that allow my other mits to mix properly with the shield absorb but as it is I can absorb an insane amount of dmg and does my shield proc as much, no but thats only because your playing other people who understand how bypass other classes strengths
Let me get this straight, because your warfronts currently have an adequate number of mouth breathers to reset stockstrike; a 40% chance to absorb 20% of a Tech or Force non-critical attack is op?

I think not.

Point of information: My proposal with N set to 50% (half) would have a tank whose shield chance is 40% and absorb is normally 40%, absorbing 20% for 8% average mitigation, before criticals are added in, because critical hits can not be shielded. If N is 33% average mitigation is 5.2% before crits

As more and more of the PVPDPS community acquire +crit & surge gear, that number will decrease.

Batslav's Avatar


Batslav
01.17.2012 , 06:01 PM | #259
tanks survive longer only while cds are up and cause of the more HP we have
i got pwned whitin seconds by operative (he is good geared) but its still not normal coz i have 19k hp atm

Scathan's Avatar


Scathan
01.17.2012 , 06:08 PM | #260
ok, thats fine, but then tanks need to deal WAY less damage than they are currently dealing, looking at you vanguard/shadow tanks.
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