Operatives: Most broken garbage balance ever.

Well they way you worded that last part made it seem like you have to do that EVERY time to survive an OPs burst which is definitely not that case, it's only when everything goes in his favor that you need to do everything to survive. However, I do agree with everything else you said and wasn't trying to say that the way buff stacking currently works isn't unbalanced. Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that issue.

This is how you kill operatives:

http://www.twitch.tv/big_aug/b/305581836

3:15 and 5:15

Although I do die the second time because I get triple teamed. Without help, I would have killed him.

How can you ask for balance when you have no clue on how mitigation works, you dont know what kind of damage youre taking and you no clue of the gear level of the person thats fighting you. You see some numbers fly up on your screen and then you die, then come here and say a class is op, you know how retarded you and the people do that sound?

I'll give this issue some context:
I'm a lvl 50 Jedi Shadow and I'm only missing 3 pieces of champ gear ( sitting at about 9.7% expertise) and just under 15K HP unbuffed.

If the Operative doesn't crit, I typically start the fight at 35-40% HP. If he does crit on a couple of the abilities I start the fight at about 25-30% HP.

Yes, I realize I can blow my CC breaker and attempt to kite them or just vanish out and run away.

But this is what most of you essentially are you saying: Shadows and most other classes should be a free kill to an operative when their CC breaker is on CD. If you're ok with that design then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with how Bioware designed the class, but I at least want people to understand what they're saying and promoting.

Shadows/Assassins already struggle against skilled tanks and Mauraders, should we be a free kill for operatives?

Armor is still effective against Kinetic damage, it's just that tanks get no use out of Defense and Shielding/Absorption and a 50% armor debuff means the armor advantage is significantly lessened.

Defensively then yes, classes with high armor, Defense and shields will see most of those advantages vanish against an Operative/Scoundrel.

I can't really speak for the other tools, as I haven't played either a Trooper or Bounty Hunter to high enough level to get a good feel of their toolset.

nm misread the post

I know posting here is futile, because it's fairly obvious people are split into two camps and aren't going to move themselves over from one into the other no matter what evidence or thoughts are given.

I've posted this into each thread where people are begging for a nerf to the Operative class, and really no one seems to care about slotting their skills appropriately for PvP.

I say this because several classes have access to an anti-stealth ability that reveals Operatives at further distances. Usually in time to fire off some kind of AoE that prohibits the use of any openers the operative has at their disposal. I'm guessing no one has this ability slotted, since it's only useful in PvP, but if you're really 'hardcore' at PvP this seems like an ability you would REALLY want to have. I know, I know, it's totally unfair that one ability negates an entire class but that's the way BioWare has designed it. Know how many Operatives I've killed on my Merc. Pyrotech while they were trying to sneak a knife into my back? (Hint: All of the time, outside of PvP Champion Gear. I can't touch anyone with that stuff.)

Now, I know what you're thinking. "But Space, I don't want to slot a useless ability just for one class!" Well, my friends, that's ok because I'm here to tell you it isn't only for one class! Yes, that's right, it also works on Assassins! Also, I'd say two points to negate an entire character class that half the forums are crying about is a good spend personally.

No matter how much you hate working with your team, it's required if you want to win. If the other team is made up of nothing except burst DPS, I don't know what you can do. That's the power of pre-made grouping. The same would be true of an all Mercenary team, or anything else that's stacked.

With everyone crying 'nerf', of course more people are going to roll the class. Even if it isn't OP. You're creating the hype with your crying, which perversely is increasing the population of a class that's only powerful if your team doesn't care who's getting picked off. Step up to the plate and be your teams 'stealth detector' and enjoy the face rolling you'll create. It is the anti-operative and will, once again, negate everything an operative can do to you. Everything.

As a parting question after you guys shed a thousand tears about the Operative and guilt BioWare into making the Operative unplayable in PvP, who will you cry about needing a nerf next? Because it's a never-ending cycle with you whiners. I'm guessing Consulars/Sorc's. After that, what, maybe Powertech? Then it won't be fair that the Jugg. gets a bubble. Then you'll need to take away force speed from Assassins. I mean, why should we give anyone time to learn how to play the game? Lets keep this a moving target so no one has a chance to judge for themselves.

They should tone down the CC's on CC classes, remove tanking abilities from tank classes, shorten the duration on speed boosts on squishy classes, up the CD to 3 minutes on closers for DPS classes, and give everyone light armor. After we've nerfed the primary roll of every class, then it will be 'fair' and 'fun'. Welcome, Comrade, to Soviet PvP.

While we're on the subject, why isn't everyone using BioChem in PvP? I only ask because it's PvP, and I can't see your armor crafter being terribly useful in a PvP zone, what with champion armor and all. So...yeah. Don't complain when the other person is PvP spec. and you're on your PvE healer. If this describes you, please, go away. You aren't PvP and have no business ever going into a zone with 'pros' and 'l33ts', it will never be balanced to you. Ever. In the history of the world.

/sarcasm

(P.S. Please keep your examples of Full-PvP Champion Set Operatives killing people out of this, since every class is unstoppable with those sets if you don't have them yourself. Especially with stacking buffs/Health Packs. Even if every attack an operative did delt 5k damage, which they don't, it would take four shots to kill a guy with 20k HP. You NEED an operative with full champ gear to offset that, with those HP they will faceroll your entire team.)

Force shroud does wonders against them, you should use it immediately after CC break and he`ll waste some CDs on it and you can win.


They're OP for sure (the opener does too much damage, that's the only problem) but you can still deal with them with good play. Force shroud is AMAZING against them and if you shroud (to remove DoTs) and then cloak you can then open up on him and turn the tables.

Many assassins have no idea how good shroud is and how to properly use it. When you stun someone, pop it just as the stun is about to wear off and the enemy will waste all their CC on you much of the time while you are immune.

Stop with the L2P ****, you're not helping anyone and quite frankly you sound like an arrogant ***** when you say that. I'm level 50 in ALL battlemaster gear and I get screwed in under 7 seconds by Operatives. Trust me, I know how to play, that's not the issue. The issue is with CD's and activation timers, or lack thereof on the Operative class. I've got a level 36 Operative I use as a healer so, again, I know what I'm talking about, not just saying things that I read.

This post sums up a huge portion of the QQ spread all over this board.

If you I could give you a cookie Sir, I would.