Why PvP is never fun in MMOs

Yes, very skilled players will stomp geared up bad players. What about when a geared up mediocre team goes up against a somewhat skilled group of players without the top-end PvP gear? It just isn't fair, and you're playing against the equipment, not the player, making it no longer PvP, but PvP+E

Expertise is meaningless here except it segregates people that have been playing for a long time from players that have not, regardless of skill. It's an unnecesary, and intrinsically destructive stat.

I play PvP in order to beat players. I don't play PvP in order to beat their equipment. That is what PvE is for. I don't NEED an incentive to PvP beyond WINNING because I ENJOY PvP for PvP.

That's great that you've killed 50's with a 23, but that doesn't make the situation fair. That just means that your opponent is that bad or the classes are that imbalanced. People whine to no end about how classes are imbalanced, and they may have some valid points. However, expertise fundamentally introduces an imbalance.

Well, its a gating mechanic that shows time invested, which should be a decent indicator of how knowledgable a person is, though when practically applied, is just wishful thinking, sadly.

@OP, while you do make some valid points ( low levels and high levels in the same bracket being the most obvious) saying there is no skill involved in pvp is just lol, I could say the same about pve, you start the fight knowing exactly what a boss will do before it happens. No skill needed there right? Where as in pvp you don't know what to expect , yes gear makes a difference but so? Go get geared, u have to do it in pve to be good right? It's the same with pvp. I'm enjoying pvp in ToR and I know many others who do too. It's pve that's boring and repetetive, cool u can kill an ai monster with ur pals but can't manage against some real people who don't have scripted movements and attacks? Tell you what, how about you go to the official forums and make a statement that no one likes pvp and It requires no skill... Oh wait...

i'm going to go with old school UO player.....


pvp for pvping pve for the rewards thats how pvp should be

DAoC, Planetside, and CoH, actually.

Valor directly relates to the gear you have access to. However, you're also correct that it's not a perfect system. A better system would keep track of your PvP activities and rank you based on outcome the way Arena works in WoW.

If you are good 8% expertise wont change anything and the rank 1 will still beat the rank 50 guy. Also since stuff is based on luck, ive seen people rank 16 will full champion gear and sadly me being rank 55 now im still missing lots of pieces.

If they put valor brakets it will just be as bad, since some low lv can be high valor rank, and low valor rank can be fully geared 50.

I hate how some people dont get how getting gear, progression in PvP can be the fun of many. I hate doing pve because you just bash on some npc who doesnt react and wait to die like a loot pinnata.

As a lv 20 in green gear i could stand my ground vs lv 50 with epic gear, yeah it was a bit harder but if you are good you will still manage to win/ help you team.

Just played a game on my lv 10 Jedi shadow alt. I was highest damage dealer and ALSO had most medals on republic side after the game.

If you want PvP to be super fair with everyone starting with the best gear, go play GW2. The only reason I don't even want to play GW2 one second is this exact some reason. No pvp progression = boring to me.

ok cool..never played planetside....the others are about the same pvp wise (daoc was last i saw) pvp to pvp not to collect points and trade for gear

OK basically.

If i meet not geared player on warzone it is: clairvoyent, clairvoyent, project, force breach, whirlwind and it is over.

There is no skill requiered there. They can't do dmg to me and i just destroy them.

The fun starts when you meet equally geared player. And it is even better when you both have your consumables on cooldowns. Then it actually starts being fun. Def cooldown rotation. Right timing on trinket. Tactical use of stuns, and all that fun stuff.


Gear is the most important factor on WZ when you meet oponents. Skill gets involved at the moment you actually meet equally geared guy.

I don't think you've grasped the point, what does valor have to do with anything?

Someone who levels mostly through PvP will have a higher level than someone who flies through the quest content, then starts PvP. Valor has nothing to do with anything, its simply about gear. There are pleanty of people with valor around the 20's and 30's who have lots of champ gear. I've also seen level 30's with 30 valor, by your argument how is it fair to pair those 2 together? but that's what your suggesting.

The correlation between valor and gear is simply because more valor = more play time. The lucky players grab their stuff earlier at a lower valor level just due to the nature of the RNG system.

The thing is you actually have a reasonable point about people with no gear getting stuck fighting those with, but your going off on a tangent about valor which is just not making sense.

If you grab your 9 boxes or so for the 2 weekly and 2 daily at 50 and thats the first time you've ever PvP'd, you'd be around 2 or 3 valor yet its technically possible to pull 9 separate bits of you champ gear from those 9 bags. Grouping WZ's by valor would be putting that 50, with 9 bits of champ gear in wz's with fresh level 10's

Personally I'd be quite happy if the 50 bracket just took an average value for valor across the players taking part. If you were higher then fair enough, no change. If your lower then boost it to that. At least un-geared 50's won't be getting the shaft with the new update.