Why PvP is never fun in MMOs

Even after BG's were introduced, we'd still have world pvp. It wasn't really till arenas that world pvp seemed to die off. If they remove expertise, they simply need to elevate the stats of the pvp gear to that of pve progression stuff.

As nice as it would be to have a pvp system that was class based, that horse left the barn, we're gonna have to work within the system we have.

I think that's about right. Earning gear from PvP'ing was the starting point for the path that lead us here today. To systems where you have to grind to even have a chance at survival a match. It's a really lazy way of doing it, and I don't really see why gaming companies keep falling into the same hole every MMO that comes out.

The formula shouldn't be to grind out gear and win against those who don't. The formula should be based on skill, hence why similarly geared people should be grouped together.

I think this is why Arena in WoW works so well.

Do you really not see the correlation between valor level and gear?

I'm going to guess 1 of 2 things has happened to cause this post.

1) Your a 50 who's opened a few bags to find nothing and are annoyed at the system

2) Your a low level who's getting smashed by 50's with PvP gear

In the case of point 1, tough, welcome to the club. Loads of players dislike the current award system but RNG is so common in so many RPG's I'm seriously wondering if many had any idea what they were getting in for. The only problem I currently see with it is being stuck with useless spares which you'll never use. Someone else could be using them.

For 2, could you not have waited till Tuesday? Valor really has nothing to do with your argument, since you unlock nothing at 50 valor. Even getting rid of the 50's from warzones and you could still find 49 Val's in there with you. Your problem is down to expertise and has nothing to do with valor at all. Quite a few 50 valor players have less champion gear than those in the 30's.

People complaining here seem to think every class at every level should have a fair chance 1 on 1 with any other class. Apart from being massively unrealistic and practically impossible to implement that's not the objective. The PvP warzones are a team game and even level 10's have a part to play but if you think your part is to go 1 on 1 the biggest most geared level 50 in the match then your mistaken.

If you get rid of expertise they need to boost the rest of the stats to match the PvE gear otherwise your handing an advantage to the hardcore raiders which is exactly why expertise exists in the first place.

What happened to gaining skills/spells/moves as progression in pvp, man nothing has topped gw1 pvp system. And bringing only 8 skills into a fight meant that you weren't gonna be able to control dps tank and heal all at once (I think trooper can do this but i might just be QQing)

(completely aware of the FotM builds and cheese builds, at least individual skills could be nerfed into the ground without breaking the game.)

not realy i have alvl 17 thats i valor rank 20ish. so realy the only correlation between the 2 is when when valor rank = xp lvl /wz comms = a nice peace of gear....

buttom line gear

I'm SandTrout, and I support this message.

What I'm saying is gear is the least important thing in PvP, only over looks.

I've been in arena teams recently hitting max level with 300 resil vs a team with 3000+ resil.

My team won. Gear helps bads kill bads. Good players WILL stomp you anyway.

Winning WZs must have a reward. Yay credits. If you pvp you don't really need em. Yay valor ranks for e-peen.

What I'm saying is the reward is gear, and in all honesty it's a minimal one.

If you want a PvP scenario where gear is equivalent, do top level PvP, such as Tournament rounds in WoW (example), where all gear is equal.



I'd like to argue your argument for PvE in which case. Give me top PvE gear so I can kill the PvE bosses as well as anyone else can, not limited by my time investment.

That, is dumb.

If you're given top gear, ALL rewards should be turned off. Maybe you want a setting? "Give me full top-level PvP/PvE gear and disable all rewards/titles/loot"?

Wheeeee pointlessness. Do you disagree? Yay, I'm not being ranked in WZs as they are now, but I want equal gear as if it's a serious competition when it's not because I know for a fact a 23 can kill 50s in 4+ pieces of champion gear because I HAVE PERSONALLY DONE IT.

It's been mentioned several times in various QAs and interviews. When you enter a 5v5 match you get your standard PVP gear set. It's course it may be changed in future, since GW2 just launched into beta.

Gear is the main aspect of PVE. I firmly believe it shouldn't play such a huge role in PVP.

WoW was the first MMO that introduced this kind of PVP. PVE-wise every game is good ol' Everquest.

Good to hear. But what if you didn't grind your gear and just played for fun. What would change?

Valor =/= Gear. As for what I want, I could care less. I did just fine in the BG's leveling up in oranges and blues against 50's in cent/champ/battlemaster gear. And when I say 'fine', I mean I preformed up to my expectations. I didn't always win, but I wasn't always immediately crushed either.

I personally see no problem with letting people without expertise fight those with expertise, so long as expertise does not create a gulf that is too large to reasonably gap. Now, as for the valor question, I see no reason why brackets should be based on valor either. You'll inevitably have mostly empty brackets at lower levels, as everyone progresses in valor.

tl;dr, I trust BW to make needed changes as they gather metrics, and the OP is unduly whining.