Stop complaining about EXPERTISE

Meh, not really. People that are easily frustrated will quit PvP for any number of reason. Sometimes they blame it on balance, sometimes on time sinks, etc etc. They will find some way of blaming the system instead of facing the reality that either

A) they are not good at the game, or
B) You have to earn your stripes (and this is just MMO 101)


To me, and many other MMO PvPers, it just makes the acquisition of gear that much more satisfying. Plus, the competition is always there. You're never the only one w/ gear for very long.

It's a better system than hardcore raiders getting all the best gear, and dominating in every aspect of the game... including PvP. What was broken was a guy in raid gear decimating a person who spent 99% of their time PvPing.

Resilence works perfectly fine. That's the reason they kept the system instead of reverting to the one you are describing. The one you described was an epic failure. Hell, people are mad as hell that Legendary (PVE) items are still allowed in PvP.

Unless PvP items start outperforming PvE items in PvE, there is absolutely nothing wrong with expertise. The only thing that may need to happen is for them to provide new PvPers with a way of getting into starter expertise gear faster. (ie blue expertise gear via crafting/commendation/etc)

The competition becomes a small knot of people that have "earned their stripes" as you put it, and the PvP community doesn't grow or flourish.

I know quite a bit about PvP game design as its how I make my living and there is nothing more erosive to making a PvP environment enjoyable to your player base than creating an artificial layer of "awesome" that only some players have, simply because they've spent more time "grinding" at PvP than someone else.

For PvP to be an active and meaningful part of a games experience over time, and in an MMO we're talking about a game that is intended to last for years if not more, you have to put everyone on an even footing and PvP gear just needs to be another method of end game rewarding players who PvP over PvE, but just because someone is in full Tionese gear, doesn't mean they should be destroyed by someone in full Battlemaster gear simply because of an artificial layer of "awesome" that the person in PvP gear wouldn't have without expertise.

This is Star Wars, and "War" is part of what is going on here, and its just another case of a developer that doesn't understand that to actively encourage "War" in any environment, the "War" has to be accessible to anyone that is interested in participating in it.

It is an established fact that a player in full Battlemaster PvP gear will be the equal of at least 3 players of equal level that are in Tionese gear. Skill doesn't have anything to do with that. Anyone that thinks it does, is simply deluding themselves.

It is a double edged sword.
Level 50's with expertise do not want to play with lowbies and lowbies can not go toe to toe with a 50 in expertise gear assuming (uh oh) that 50 has any competency in his class, which im going to give him the benefit of the doubt on.

Obligations or simply a lack of interest in grinding to 50 has stopped many, like me, from donning our own expertise gear.

The fix is near
I look forward to not dealing with level 50's in WZ's, just as they look forward to me not "holding them back" (lol) On January 17th, 2012 patch 1.1 goes live, premades with expertise 50's will not get matched with less geared groups.

Although expertise should have always been matched with expertise, the free gear machine will finally close its doors in swtor.

1) If you make the system come in with a preset level for each class that everyone from that advanced class receives PVE raiders wont be running over anyone...

plus. the people that are playing PVP forever will be better at it and their SKILL will let them win the match...
even the group of friends they have that they play with and communicate with would give them a huge advan over pve people dipping into pvp.


2)let them bring the legendaries in and just use them for vanity. bcause their stats would be the same as the level 20 dude that walked in naked.

pvp people would be at no disadvantage there

3) There are plenty of people who raid with pvp gear. usually not nightmare mode... but it can be done.
though i do think that they could follow the 3 tier ratings with pvp as well.

You're coming up with some pretty clever reasons for explaining why someone who is only interested in pvp is less of a "real pvp'er" than someone who wants to incorporate a gear treadmill.

People are motivated to play or to quit for different reasons. "Gear gets in the way of pvp" is a real opinion that doesn't have to have a misleading origin. It doesn't have to come from PvE people, casuals, bads, communists, or whomever else.

If the game survives to see new content and gear added you will be gald that expertise is in the game. People who don't like this kind of stat have never played a good game that requires actual skill and good group play...

It's not really a small knot. It might be for a week or two, especially w/out cross server. But every day more and more people get geared. Hell, I run into a dozen people every night on my server that have better/equal gear than me that I have never even seen before. People want to be the beast that dominates in PvP. A ton of them will earn their stripes to make it happen.


I know a lot about MMO design since it's how I've wasted my life for the past 10 years. Gear grinds are the best method. The trick is making it not overly frustrating (ie Aion) but also making it hard enough that it has some sense of accomplishment attached to it.

Everyone is on even footing. Everyone has access to the same gear, and will plateau at the same gear gap. If players want even footing from day one, they'll play a game like Starcraft or an FPS(and still get destroyed, since those games are extremely skill based, which takes time regardless). There is a reason almost every MMO in existence is a gear grind of some sort... players like watching/feeling their avatar grow in power and having something to show for their hard work afterwards.

WoW works in the same fashion, and it's PvP system is extremely active.

Sure, it's also an established fact that a good player in full Battlemaster PvP gear will beat a mediocre player in full Battlemaster PvP gear, and will be capable of far more in pretty much any other capacity as well.

^ this.

i swear 99% of people i meet in swtor are WoW gladiators somehow.

Why would I play a MMO purely for the mechanics? The combat systems are subpar, the graphics are lackluster, the scope is limited. I play a MMO PvP game because my character develops and grows stronger the more time I put into him. This isn't just for TOR, this is every MMO. They all suck mechanically when you compare them to pretty much any other PvP game.

It's the same reason I wouldn't raid w/out PvE gear progression. I'd be better served by playing a game w/ significantly better mechanics and AI.