Expertise is a giant mistake, didn't you learn from Trion?

Grind your way to Valor 60, then say its easy... its not.

But even then, expertise is far from a decisive advantage when you consider equally geared PVE toons.

Theres also a good reason why many of the top pvpers who have access to BOTH PVE and PVP gear are using the PVE sets... its because SOME stats on PVE gear are superior to equal points in Expertise.

The simple fact is there are other stats which trump expertise point for point in both PVE AND PVP..... I learned this by grinding out 100's of warzones and tinkering with stacking different stats.

Expertise is nice , but not the be all and end all ...


With or without expertise a 50 will destroy lower levels... Brackets will fix this. no other change is needed

i never claimed we were godlike... we were good though.. and generally raiding guilds were that... raiders that dabbled in pvp... we were pvpers that dabbled in raiding... our goal was to grind HWL gear.. where as MOST teams with t3 were raiders doing bg's for fun rickrollin pugs while waiting for raids. we knew how to work the bg better then them.. that and we only ran AB.. not sure how well we would fair against one in WSG. but in AB.. we rarely lost.. no matter the gear difference. maybe if we were in greens but we weren't..

I believe you here. The thing is, PvPers seem not to realize how expertise screws them over by allowing the devs to pass off second rate gear onto them, when they should just be asking for access, however limited (weekly/biweekly reward, maybe?) to gear that is on par with the top-end raid gear.

If you don't like PvE enough to play through it for the top end gear because you can get it a little bit faster if you grind PvP, then you're not enjoying the game, you're just feeding an addiction.

people are stupid and dont think obviously.
expertise is there so that the people who raid and get raid gear dont go into pvp and faceroll those that dont.
now instead it mostly separates those the pve from those that pvp except for those that do both and have 2 different sets.
get some expertise and learn it only helps against others who dont have it or take the time to get it.

You completely missed the point in your jaded view of what people are saying.
The expertise isn't to have an edge. It's to have a linear gear development. Same as pve raid gear does. The difference is the people whining here don't understand that all Expertise does is define if the gear is pve gained or pvp gained. Yes it has a side perk. Just like raid gained gear has sets bonuses. Trust me, Youre gonna want the expertise as a pvper once the tier raid gear starts getting to be more common. Cuz youre gonna need the 10% decrease in dmg taken else the "I got 2 shot by xx class!! nerf them!" will fill these forums.

There is little math atm due to no combat logs. but wait til people start theorycrafting WHAT pieces of pvp gear you want and what pve pieces you want to pvp in. dmg done vs mitigation etc etc. That's a huge HUGE part of the endgame. And if you think it isn't, well you're delusional. No math, no theorycrafting, no trial and error makes for a very dull endgame.

The scripted pve raid takes way more planning than a SOLO win or lose doesn't matter pvp grind. So why should the gear be TOTALLY equal?

I don't want someone in my PVE raid that got their gear thru PVP cuz who the hell knows if they even work well with others? If they understand the concepts of PVE. Whether they are top tier pvp or not. Good pvpers don't inately make good raiders. Just as good raiders don't inately make good pvpers. The gear differentiates HOW they got their gear.

To take it a step further. You're gonna get your *** handed to you if you go into a raid in crappy gear. Just like you're gonna get your *** handed to you when you freshly hit the 50 bracket. At least in the SOLO pvp environment you are still earning what you need to advance your crappy gear. In a raid, It's win or nothing. Not to mention even if the piece you want drops, no guarantee YOU will get it. Im assuming why they made pvp bags and not just straight comm pts.

Let's say for a second there is no expertise but there is some other hidden mod on gear to differentiate the 2 that doesn't affect gameplay. Youre STILL gonna get your *** handed to you by the people who have been grinding that gear before you hit 50.

People are whining about something that will invariably allow BW to modify, at any given time, to make pvp more balanced totally separate from pve balancing. Which has been the downfall of ALOT of games. Balancing the 2 is extremely hard to do. It's 2 totally separate aspects of the game. There is no way in hell they are gonna take it out just because a few crybabies got butthurt and died.

Let me summarize the thread for real quick, because a lot of statements have been made regarding the reason for the stat existing.

Problem: WoW raid gear far surpassed gear available to pure PvP players.

Solution 1: Create a new stat that reduces damage only from players and add it to PvP gear so that Raid gear is no longer dominant in PvP, but prevents players from simultaneously gearing for PvP and PvE.

Solution 2: Grant access to raid-equivalent gear to PvP only players.

Either way, fresh 50s are still screwed in PvP.

Blizzard and BioWare went with Solution 1.

Is that about right?

I hate the idea of Expertise as a whole. I always thought a pvp-only stat was a terrible idea. It's flavorless, bland, boring and just unnecessary. I think that any stat or ability that has use only in a single aspect of an MMO is a bad idea. Tha includes stats, abilities, skills and even crafting. Having armor with Expertise that increases damage/healing output and reduces damage taken seems unnecessary when the same effects can be had with just more armor and main offensive stat. So what could they do?

My opinion is that they should implement armor sets with bonuses to raw HP for example. or maybe even enhance/change the functionality of certain abilities. Like a 5-piece bonus to Vanguard armor that increases Reactive Shield duration by 10 seconds for example. Much more interesting and flavorful stuff than a boring stat like Expertise, AND both useful in PVE and PVP (though obviously finds better use in PVP).

Just get rid of Expertise altogether and give us something more fun to play with.

Yes and no.
The problem in wow was intitially the fact that there was NO pvp gear to begin with. So pvp was determined by who had the most raid gear. Pvp was neigh impossible for pvpers.

They added in pvp gear to pvpers thru their own ladder and that fixed it somewhat, but not fully as the raid gear still far outdid the pvp gear.

They then added in better pvp gear but realized that it was all just a time investment. People who had more time skewed their ladder for the better gear. HWL was easy to get as long as you had a few other people with you or using your account. It promoted account sharing and a constant steam of ABs. Servers were also selling off the title and gear that went with it.

Thats when they added in resilience. to balance it all out.

At least that's how i remember it. It's been so long and i'm prolly off on some of them but thats the general way things went.

And then some random set bonus or hp bonus gets added to the PVP gear that makes it vastly superior to PVE gear for some classes and forces raiders that have zero interest in PVP to do so in order to maximize their potential. At the same time, the opposite holds true for PVP players in PVE, which the PVP only stat helps to alleviate (typically). Were it not there, many PVE items would end up best in slot.

I think PVP players being forced to PVE isn't as big of a deal though, as the majority of the game's content IS PvE related.

Also, some of the people that read the first two pages, pick a random post to quote, and respond need to seriously read a little further.

Did resilience actually fix the problem of gear and time investment skewing the ladders? I didn't play WoW, and I am genuinely asking for information, but the current system seems to reward time investment just as much as anything else I can imagine.