Mitigation, the REAL problem. Also, operatives need a 2x dmg multiplier.

You do literally not understand why Player skill is irrelevant to a discussion of game mechanics. Gear and Skill are variables, if we don’t assume that all variables are equal for the sake of analyzing mechanics; there will be no way to know if the result is due to the variables, or the mechanics. Great skills can overcome poor mechanics, and poor skills can negate the worst mechanics, but that doesn’t have any relevancy to whether they are good, or bad mechanics, or how they work in practice against competent players.

For the sake of this Mitigation discussion, assume Good players with Good PvP gear. What happens when Good players with Good PvP gear enter a WZ? Proclaiming your l33tness allows you to avoid really addressing the Mitigation question.

Look, most of us here understand the mechanics as much as we can without a Combat Log. We know how to get decent numbers of medals each match, even when we lose, we could use our knowledge to stack DPS gear, and Spec DPS. The problem with that approach is that if we wanted to be a DPS role we would have picked a DPS class; we want to Tank, absorb damage, make it harder for you to damage our teammates, and have the Damage Mitigation necessary to fulfill that role. Tanks should be able to Tank, lower DPS should result in greater HPs and Mitigation, Defensive gear should add defense that works in actual PvP, at the cost of lower DPS, and the game’s mechanics should implement this.

I don't play a tank or even an AC that has the option to tank but if this is true I think it should be fixed. Really shocked if something this game breaking made it through all the beta and internal testing.

The abilities that do white damage are mainly used due to their other properties, e.g. building rage or slowing the target. Damage wise they are the weakest of the SW's abilities and don't provide a particularly high percentage of the overall damage.

You mean the specs not actually used by pvpers?

What armour advantage does an Immortal Jugg in tank gear have over a Rage one in dps gear in Soresu exactly?

Well, in the case of a Rage spec Sith Juggernaut… There's still a lot of white damage:

Vicious Slash (One of the regular hard hitters)
Force Charge
Ravage
Obliterate
Saber Throw
Sundering Assault
Assault

There's definitely a lot of Kinetic damage in a Rage spec, but if you took away all the white damage, a Juggernaut would do really gimpy overall damage.

Marauder would have Deadly Throw, Crippling Slash, and Battering Assault mixed in there in place of other stuff and end up in pretty much the same situation as Rage spec.


Just because they are not as popular (for good reason) doesn't mean they should be ignored entirely. They still matter and are part of the AC's identity, and they do a lot of white damage.



The talent synergy for Immortal spec makes it such that they pretty much stay in Soresu form all the time with little reason to switch. Rage spec on the other hand is generally not going to be running around in Soresu form in the first place. Sure, they can situationally switch for survivability in narrow situations, but they pay a fairly steep price in damage capability. End result is real world Immortal player has a 60% armor advantage over a Rage player in the bulk of pvp situations.

An Immortal Jugg doesn't need to use tank gear, either. They probably shouldn't, unless they have a very specific role in a coordinated pvp group.

I don't play a tank or even an AC that has the option to tank but if this is true I think it should be fixed. Really shocked if something this game breaking made it through all the beta and internal testing.

Eternity Vault may be the difference. Haven't been there or Tanked that yet. Not sure if a Tank set makes a considerable difference there.