Mitigation, the REAL problem. Also, operatives need a 2x dmg multiplier.

Even on this point you are incorrect. DPS secondary stats have no diminishing returns, but tank stats do.

As more and more tiers become available, even the small amount of benefit that Def and Shield currently give will become worse and worse relative to DPS gear.

What exactly are you expecting them to address? People in this topic are using faulty logic to defend their claim, such as listing the QUANTITY of shield-bypassing attacks rather than the FREQUENCY of usage. Are you even aware that most of the shield bypassers ALREADY do less damage or get mitigated by armor? Are you keen on the fact that Elemental damage is already baselined to be less than non-elemental damage?

Disclaimer: Operatives are a completely different story and all that Internal damage needs to be nerfed.

Let's look at Troopers for a moment, shall we?

The Vanguard has two main specs... Tactics and Assault.

For Tactics, it's mostly elemental damage. Armor and Shield bypassing. It's a wizard spec meant to cut through tanks. What do you get out of it? Everything hits for less damage. It's actually considered a garbage DPS spec with a one-trick pony behind Pulse Generator, which needs to be built up to five charges by spamming one of the lowest damaging elemental attacks for 1300 a pop and then gets channeled for massive AOE cone damage (interruptable, fyi).

For Assault, the entire spec is centered around High Impact Bolt. You can spec for up to 90% armor penetration... but it's also a Ranged attack, which means shields affect it. Sure, you can choose to ignore shields... and you're now getting hit by this spec's main attack for over 3500 damage on a crit, and that's before buffs. On an average of every 6 seconds, depending on frequency of a certain cooldown reset proc. Really want to ignore your shield against this spec? Not likely. Besides that, the basic ranged Hammer Shot gets used often just for managing ammo... it's one of the most used attacks and gets mitigated by shields.

The Commando also has two main specs... Gunnery and Assault.

For Assault, you're the same as a Vanguard. You spam High Impact Bolt as much as humanly possible. Shield helps here tremendously in negating the absurd damage this move puts out. In fact, due to the armor penetration, it's the ONLY thing that negates the absurd damage this thing puts out. One trick pony shut down, and that's before including other ranged attacks Commandos get.

For Gunnery, you're basically built to spam Grav Round. It's a tech attack, so it ignores shields, but it's stopped by armor. It also has a cast time. Why are you letting the commando stand in one spot spamming Grav Round? That's like letting a wizard stand in one spot repeatedly casting Fireball. You're expecting that NOT to hurt? Meanwhile, his Charged Bolt is Ranged, his Hail of Bolts is Ranged, his Full Auto is Ranged, his basic attack is Ranged... all stopped by shields in addition to armor.


It's not that tanks are facing off against mountains of guys using tech attacks. It's that it's the smart thing to do against a tank. What do players do in other games? They use abilities that Cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried against TANKS. They use abilities that debuff Armor against TANKS. They use bleeds against TANKS. They use all kinds of shield ignoring monstrosities against TANKS and reserve their other stuff for non-tanks. Heck, even in WoW, shields did not function from behind. So what did Rogues do? They stunned the tank, ran behind him, and IGNORED HIS SHIELD.

Fact is, if you want the absolute most defense possible in PVP, being a tank has its merits. They are saviors in premades for it and do not need to contribute to the dps of the group, they just need to survive and do the objectives or keep the rest of the team alive. But it sounds like many people here are puggers who don't roll with a steady team or receive steady heals or have a PURPOSE to be tanking in PVP in the first place! So naturally... you're better off getting some DPS gear and helping the team another way.

Meanwhile, when you come up against that premade with a TRUE tank running the huttball or keeping his fellows alive on Voidstar, don't complain about how hard to kill he is. Small percentage boosts in damage reduction lead to BIG returns on healing, which greatly extends your lifespan. Exponentially.

Don't bother man. I already explained all this using ACTUAL NUMBERS pages ago and the gullible fools still deny it. Let them keep bumping this thread thinking that shields are useless in PvP and hoping in vain for a dev response to something that is working as intended and working just fine. I'm having fun seeing how many people are critical thinking failures.

I suppose you're right. But as the Hero of the Republic army, I can't help but try to iron out the ignorance once in a while.

Best let things lie... if there's one thing Bioware can do, it's collect data correctly...

Translation: I don't know how to argue effectively so I have to attempt to confuse you and you beat me with logic. Now I'll turn tail and run.

There isn't an iota of evidence in this thread that isn't anecdotal or circumstantial. Belittling me will not alter that fact.

We’ve presented as much data as possible regarding the number and frequency of Tech and Force attacks that ignore Mitigation, without a Combat Log doing more is impossible.

While we’re at it, you’ve argued by anecdote far more than we have. I explained why Player Skill is not relevant in a game mechanics discussion – a skilled player can overcome mechanics stacked against them when playing against unskilled players, but that has little to do with the poorly implemented game mechanic.

The Pro PvPer types will tend to gravitate towards the classes with mechanics that favor those classes, which is why there are so many Sorcs and Ops in the WZs.

There isn't an iota of evidence in this thread that isn't anecdotal or circumstantial. Belittling me will not alter that fact.

These abilities are affected by shielding per Torhead.

Say'th you.

Shield and defence on tank gear offer minimal survival increase across some classes, DPS offers decent (not minimal) damage increase across ALL classes while still providing excellent survivability with the right spec.

Oh irony.