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Mitigation, the REAL problem. Also, operatives need a 2x dmg multiplier.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Mitigation, the REAL problem. Also, operatives need a 2x dmg multiplier.

beliglath's Avatar


beliglath
01.11.2012 , 04:02 PM | #441
Quote: Originally Posted by Nohoth View Post
Really Bioware? 23,000 views, 44 pages, and nothing as much as a reply to let me know if the set of gear i farmed is worthless or just bugged.


To the people trying to defend this, and saying it's the way it was intended, you have no idea what your talking about. as a shield vanguard a good portion of my abilitys depend on my shield going off, like getting ammo or refreshing stockstrike. so when i dueled a sorc today on Ilum guess what I was at a sevre disadvantage to him cause I had count em 13 worthless talent points that all were based off my shiled proc. and since it never went off once in 3 duels all those talents went to waste.

I am sorry but I am not ok with my pvp tank gear I farmed, & almost half my tanking talents being worthless to 5/8 ACs in the game.
Lol i still renamber when they announced the red zone it took over 600 pages and over a million views to get the first ( and not so helpfull ) response xD
Ferocity

Empire LATAM Guild
A True Warrior Never Escapes From Battle

ArmoredJuneBug's Avatar


ArmoredJuneBug
01.11.2012 , 04:02 PM | #442
Quote: Originally Posted by LordSemaj View Post
You completely ignore this little thing called healing...
Yes, because it's got nothing to do with the argument at hand.

If you're beating on a tank, or anyone at all really, with a pet healer instead of switching to the healer you deserve to lose.

There's also the fact that twice as long still isn't particularly long at all, with the damage numbers being thrown out.
Quote: Originally Posted by LordSemaj View Post
Done with this thread.
Promises, promises.
Quote: Originally Posted by LordSemaj View Post
Stick whatever numbers you want into the example, then increase the damage reduction by whatever you want.
Tank: 1 DPS.
Healer 2 (for damage-dealer DPS): 2 HPS.
DPS mitigation: 30%.

Tank goes down like a wet paper rag.

Or, alternately, DPS hits healer instead of tank. Dealing unmitigable damage to tank due to Guard and preventing healer from healing effectively.

You're welcome.
Quote: Originally Posted by LordSemaj View Post
Tanks, regardless of how you feel, have the highest mitigation.
Actually they have exactly the same mitigation as DPS characters using the same AC. Only a lot lower damage and pointless stat allocation on gear.
Quote: Originally Posted by LordSemaj View Post
Once done, enemies are forced to attack the tank directly to drop any targets.
Except that's something you should never, ever do.

It's better to hit the guarded target than the tank himself. Unless the guarded target is another tank, in which case you hit both to overload damage on the guarding tank.

This isn't rocket science, if people are attacking the tank when there are other targets they are bad, end of. Tanks are supposed to be controlled, not beaten down when there are other targets around.
Quote: Originally Posted by LordSemaj View Post
...in no way can overall survival time for tanks go up if the game is to remain balanced and playable.
Except that's not an undisputable fact by any means.

And, as should be obvious, not something you'll convince a lot of people here about.
Quote: Originally Posted by Boarg View Post
Probably, if Scoundrel/Operative and Commando/Mercenary just get their damage types tweaked a bit on a couple well targeted abilities, then things would probably be in a really good place and there would be no need to tweak tank mechanics themselves in PvP.
Or you could equalize mitigable abilities for the other classes, making tanks less useless and reducing the nerf-cries for Sages/Sorcerers and Scoundrels/Operatives in one fell swoop.

beliglath's Avatar


beliglath
01.11.2012 , 04:07 PM | #443
Quote: Originally Posted by Leiloni View Post
This is what the OP left out. Which and how many skills actually deal Internal damage. Not many.

While internal and elemental damage bypasses armor, DPS spec Scoundrel/Ops and Sages/Sorcs have two attacks at most that deal internal/elemental damage and they are mostly on CDs because they are the big class defining skills. The bread and butter attacks that they spend most of their time using are energy or weapon attacks which are mitigated by armor.
wich again its not the topic of this post, all tanks can have the same armor using dps gear, please focus yourselfs in the real issue wich is TANK STATS, not armor.
Ferocity

Empire LATAM Guild
A True Warrior Never Escapes From Battle

Raving_Ravec's Avatar


Raving_Ravec
01.11.2012 , 04:10 PM | #444
Quote: Originally Posted by RoadtoArkham View Post
As a DPS player, through and through, I'm reluctant to give this any support. Too many bad memories of never being able to take down a Paladin in WoW with my Rogue

But this thread needs attention. I have to agree that it is an issue when I, as an Operative, do not hesitate to attack tanks knowing I can pull it off. As much as I despise incessant complaining and whining, this is a very real issue, with plenty of evidence and well-written arguments behind it.

One would hope that a fix to this would also help balance out some of the insane burst we do as Operatives. Hell, it might not even be our classes fault!

For everyone who plans on unsubscribing or quitting, just remember that the came just came out. Give it time. Bioware will take care of our issues and I'm confident they hear our voices. Unfortunately, important issues like this are occluded by the incessant, porrly-written QQ.
The SW:TOR Beta started 23/06/2010, that's one and a half years ago. In that period this issue wasn't resolved, why would it be any time soon? You can't really say 'the game just came out so it doesn't matter' when its been up and running for 1,5 years.

Ithril's Avatar


Ithril
01.11.2012 , 04:16 PM | #445
As to the "how many attacks do damage besides weapon-damage?" question:

I decided to try something today, did a bunch of warzones with my shield generator exchanged for a power generator (so 0% chance to shield.) I didn't notice the difference. So in my humble opinion the answer to the question is, not enough to notice.

Shielding needs to be fixed. Not just for survivability, but lots of talents (I'm looking at you, Shieldtech Powertech tree) hinge on shielding actually working.

Are tanks underpowered? That's debateable. Should everyone's major class mechanics work before we start deciding what is or isn't balanced? Absolutely. How would DPS classes like only being able to crit against "the right" classes.
Scoundrels Anonymous
A group of friends first, who happen to play MMOs together.

beliglath's Avatar


beliglath
01.11.2012 , 04:16 PM | #446
Quote: Originally Posted by Raving_Ravec View Post
The SW:TOR Beta started 23/06/2010, that's one and a half years ago. In that period this issue wasn't resolved, why would it be any time soon? You can't really say 'the game just came out so it doesn't matter' when its been up and running for 1,5 years.
with a low player base and you dont really know how many skilled pvpers were actually playing.
Ferocity

Empire LATAM Guild
A True Warrior Never Escapes From Battle

RoadtoArkham's Avatar


RoadtoArkham
01.11.2012 , 04:16 PM | #447
Quote: Originally Posted by Raving_Ravec View Post
The SW:TOR Beta started 23/06/2010, that's one and a half years ago. In that period this issue wasn't resolved, why would it be any time soon? You can't really say 'the game just came out so it doesn't matter' when its been up and running for 1,5 years.
Was the issue given notice at the time? It's incredibly short-sighted to say that because an issue hasn't been fixed yet, it will never be fixed.
Hail to the King, baby.

beliglath's Avatar


beliglath
01.11.2012 , 04:18 PM | #448
Quote: Originally Posted by Ithril View Post
As to the "how many attacks do damage besides weapon-damage?" question:

I decided to try something today, did a bunch of warzones with my shield generator exchanged for a power generator (so 0% chance to shield.) I didn't notice the difference. So in my humble opinion the answer to the question is, not enough to notice.

Shielding needs to be fixed. Not just for survivability, but lots of talents (I'm looking at you, Shieldtech Powertech tree) hinge on shielding actually working.

Are tanks underpowered? That's debateable. Should everyone's major class mechanics work before we start deciding what is or isn't balanced? Absolutely. How would DPS classes like only being able to crit against "the right" classes.
they would have to re think their stragegy switching to power and accuracy rather than crit and surge, or remain like they are to kill non tanks
Ferocity

Empire LATAM Guild
A True Warrior Never Escapes From Battle

Leiloni's Avatar


Leiloni
01.11.2012 , 04:19 PM | #449
Quote: Originally Posted by beliglath View Post
wich again its not the topic of this post, all tanks can have the same armor using dps gear, please focus yourselfs in the real issue wich is TANK STATS, not armor.
The OP's entire post is directed around Internal and Elemental damage causing these problems. My point is - Sorcs/Sages and Ops/Scoundrels have at most, three attacks that deal that type of damage and only one of them doesn't have a cooldown. So over the course of a fight, regardless of his tanking stats and whatever, internal damage should only be a problem for two or three attacks. That's it. He's making it seem like all of the damage coming from these two classes is internal when in fact it's the minority of their skills that do that. There's so much talk about the tanks instead of people talking about the fact that internal damage is not the majority of the damage you'll be seeing.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1753652#edit1753270

Lina_Inverse's Avatar


Lina_Inverse
01.11.2012 , 04:22 PM | #450
Quote: Originally Posted by Leiloni View Post
The OP's entire post is directed around Internal and Elemental damage causing these problems. My point is - Sorcs/Sages and Ops/Scoundrels have at most, three attacks that deal that type of damage and only one of them doesn't have a cooldown. So over the course of a fight, regardless of his tanking stats and whatever, internal damage should only be a problem for two or three attacks. That's it. He's making it seem like all of the damage coming from these two classes is internal when in fact it's the minority of their skills that do that. There's so much talk about the tanks instead of people talking about the fact that internal damage is not the majority of the damage you'll be seeing.
There's a secondary compounding problem in that unlike most other classes, all of their primary damage is tech damage, which ignores defense and skills that boost it. On top of that, they have a buff that not only applies an internal damage dot for decent damage, but also ensures that they are always bypassing 50% of armor completely with every attack, UNLIKE any other class.

The class is built to penetrate defenses, there's no doubt about that. The question is whether or not it's too good at it.
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