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How do Jedi continue to exist/be strong?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
How do Jedi continue to exist/be strong?

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
01.11.2012 , 01:20 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by LX_Theo View Post
Im pretty sure that they made it really clear in the movies that midochlorians were beings that gathered more the stronger the force was. They arent actually making the force, only a side effect of being strong in it that allows force strength to be quanitified.
Well, technically, midichlorians do create the Force.

Qui-Gon: They are microscopic organisms that live inside your cells.
Obi-Wan: The Force is an energy field created by all living things.
Yoda: Life creates (the Force), makes it grow.

So, technically, midichlorians do create the Force. But so do humans, Rodians, Twi'leks, Hutts, Womp Rats, Mynocks, and Space Slugs.

What they do in living beings is allow access to the energy field known as the Force, granting the ability to control and manipulate that energy to a biological being.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

Yaksha's Avatar


Yaksha
01.11.2012 , 02:25 AM | #12
I've always wondered about this myself.

Let's say that force sensitivity can be granted randomly via random mutation, but at the same time it is an inheritable trait and that sensitivity is continous. So like height. Short people could still (rarely) produce someone of absolutely any height, where as on average the taller your parents are the taller you are, with some variation.

The Jedi picks force sensitives and those who stay with the Jedi order do not reproduce and pass on that sensitivity.

However is there really any indication that the 'most force sensitive' people in each generation are being taken out of the gene pool?
- As people pointed out, the galaxy is a big place. Lots of people, lots of force sensitives. The jedi order cannonically numbers what? 10 thousand? Maybe 100 thousand. I doubt it though. So it's possible that the number of Jedi compared to force sensitives is in fact so small that they are not creating any selective pressure against force sensitivity.
- Secondly, the strongest force sensitives do not necessarily become Jedi. I'd imagine that out of the children who join the Jedi, there are different degrees of force sensitivity. But we know a lot of Jedi fail to become Jedi (remember the Jedi Apprentice series, where a young Obi-Wan almost didn't become a Padawan, at which point he would have been sent to the agriculture corps and presumably lived a fairly normal life). So is there any correlation between strong force sensitivity and becoming a Jedi? I know the most powerful Jedi must also be naturally force sensitive, but there are probably still heaps of very force sensitive individuals who never make it.
- Lastly, we know that the force runs strongly in families. However we don't know significant this compared to all the force users who come from non-force families. Maybe most force sensitives are 'random' occurances, and a few truly powerful force linages are actually a rarity.

Triforcedragon's Avatar


Triforcedragon
01.11.2012 , 02:29 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by LX_Theo View Post
Im pretty sure that they made it really clear in the movies that midochlorians were beings that gathered more the stronger the force was. They arent actually making the force, only a side effect of being strong in it that allows force strength to be quanitified.
Exactly, the idea that the Midichlorians themsleves create the force seems to be the most common misconception in regards to them.
"Heroes get remembered, but legends never die."

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
01.11.2012 , 10:41 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Triforcedragon View Post
Exactly, the idea that the Midichlorians themsleves create the force seems to be the most common misconception in regards to them.
Quite true. Many midichlorian haters do so because they assume midichlorians are SOLELY responsible for creating the Force, or that they somehow ARE the Force, neither of which is supported by what is said about them.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
01.11.2012 , 10:59 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Yaksha View Post
Let's say that force sensitivity can be granted randomly via random mutation, but at the same time it is an inheritable trait and that sensitivity is continous. So like height. Short people could still (rarely) produce someone of absolutely any height, where as on average the taller your parents are the taller you are, with some variation.
Excellent point.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yaksha View Post
The Jedi picks force sensitives and those who stay with the Jedi order do not reproduce and pass on that sensitivity.
Qualified truth. In the Prequel Era, there was something called "The Lost Twelve," mentioned heavily in the RotS novel. They were twelve Jedi who had left the Order for various reasons. It is also shown that, despite the normal Jedi prohibitions against marriage and family, Ki-Adi-Mundi was granted permission to have a family, due to the low birthrate of Cereans. He actually had five wives and seven children! (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ki-Adi-Mundi). I'm sure there are other instances of Jedi either being allowed to have a family and children, such as Ki-Adi-Mundi above or Revan and Bastilla in the Revan novel, or of Jedi who have either left the Order, been expelled, or simply ignored the rules. Also, just because attachments and family are forbidden, it doesn't mean that Jedi are forbidden from -- shall we say, dipping their wicks wherever they please. Given the mobility of Jedi assignments, one ***** Knight could father dozens of theoretically Force-Sensitive bastards across the whole galaxy.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yaksha View Post
However is there really any indication that the 'most force sensitive' people in each generation are being taken out of the gene pool?
Not really.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yaksha View Post
- As people pointed out, the galaxy is a big place. Lots of people, lots of force sensitives. The jedi order cannonically numbers what? 10 thousand? Maybe 100 thousand. I doubt it though. So it's possible that the number of Jedi compared to force sensitives is in fact so small that they are not creating any selective pressure against force sensitivity.
It could be. It could also be that Force-Sensitivity is just that rare. But it's almost certain that, like Anakin in TPM, several Force-Sensitives just slip through the cracks. In fact, the Sith Empire has had an entire Force-Sensitive civilization for several hundred or thousand years by the time this game takes place, meaning there are thousands of Force-Sensitives born in areas of space the Republic wasn't even aware of. Following the Battle of Ruusan and the Rule of Two. . . well, these Sith Lords had to find their apprentices somewhere, right? So basically, in every generation, there was at least one Force-Sensitive person who slipped through the Jedi cracks, but got caught by a Sith Lord looking for a new apprentice.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yaksha View Post
- Secondly, the strongest force sensitives do not necessarily become Jedi. I'd imagine that out of the children who join the Jedi, there are different degrees of force sensitivity. But we know a lot of Jedi fail to become Jedi (remember the Jedi Apprentice series, where a young Obi-Wan almost didn't become a Padawan, at which point he would have been sent to the agriculture corps and presumably lived a fairly normal life). So is there any correlation between strong force sensitivity and becoming a Jedi? I know the most powerful Jedi must also be naturally force sensitive, but there are probably still heaps of very force sensitive individuals who never make it.
That's an excellent question. One would assume that the stronger in the Force one is, the better a Jedi one would make. However, Anakin illustrates brilliantly that this is not always the case. It's quite possible that an individual incredibly strong in the Force may simply not have the mindset and desire to become a Jedi, and wash out of training fairly early. Of course, one could also assume that the stronger one is in the Force, the more effort the Order puts into ensuring the youngling's training in successful.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yaksha View Post
- Lastly, we know that the force runs strongly in families. However we don't know significant this compared to all the force users who come from non-force families. Maybe most force sensitives are 'random' occurances, and a few truly powerful force linages are actually a rarity.
Another good point. While the post RotJ/pre-PT EU authors assumed that, because Luke and Leia inherited their Force Sensitivity, this was the primary means of gaining Force Sensitivity. It could be argued, given the data surrounding Anakin from the PT, that the Skywalker lineage's strength in the Force is a complete fluke, a non-repeatable event. However, this would invalidate vast amounts of C-canon material.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

Zorrah's Avatar


Zorrah
01.11.2012 , 11:22 AM | #16
And yet the most notable relationship in the original trilogy was Jedi Father and Jedi Son. And a major victory was due to a father's love for his son.

JerecKaast's Avatar


JerecKaast
01.11.2012 , 02:59 PM | #17
The no emotional attachment thing is not some permanent rule that has lasted for thousands of generations. If you read the lore you see that there are times when families/marriages are considered acceptable, unsurprisingly this tends to occur when the jedi population is low.