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Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 01:37 PM | #561
Quote: Originally Posted by Grammarye View Post
In short, lack of technical knowledge strikes again, speculation runs rampant, and worse, the OP edits the post as though the original speculation is truth and the responses in dark blue, very hard to read, are just extra bits of info. Essentially Bioware is guilty until proven innocent, and whilst I desire as much technical info as possible as well, I dislike this approach. True investigative research is done objectively.

All that said, this is what happens when developers forget to properly name their DLLs and components.
Well I got yellow used to announce the dev posts, for obvious reasons. Red to try to get people to see the big huge caveat. What color to use to differentiate the rest then, neon green? And technically it's just 'blue' per the forums...I can go lighten it up a bit maybe.

And actually I've been editing the post to try to clarify things to keep people from misunderstanding and jumping to quite so many false conclusions, so that newcomers reading it get a better idea of what's going on. Also adding in whatever plausible bits of explanation I can come up with, but without modifying the text or locking it off until it's confirmed.

Things that are pretty well conclusively proven wrong are closed off in spoiler tags and labeled to that effect within them as well. I'd use strikethrough instead but that doesn't seem to be an option, at least not that I can find.
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

Klondeikbar's Avatar


Klondeikbar
01.11.2012 , 01:37 PM | #562
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSublimitas View Post
Jesus, what ever happened to playing a game normally??? No strange download this, send strange coded messages to company servers that. I have such a headache from all of this...

All that died when publishers decided that mediocre products couldn't possibly be the reason for falling revenue, it had to be pirates.

Incendergel's Avatar


Incendergel
01.11.2012 , 01:37 PM | #563
Oh - and I might as well add:

SWTOR.exe PID 6772 (they main pid I think that is doing all the disk reads, etc) is:

935.220 MB memory / 900,488 private

SWTOR.exe PID 2156 (the secondary process the above guy is doing something with) is:
292,824 MB memory / 197,776 private

That is a heafty primary process, huh?

DarthSublimitas's Avatar


DarthSublimitas
01.11.2012 , 01:40 PM | #564
Quote: Originally Posted by Klondeikbar View Post
All that died when publishers decided that mediocre products couldn't possibly be the reason for falling revenue, it had to be pirates.
Agreed

But I just want to play a game that actually works. Turn it on, log in, and go kill something.
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Klondeikbar's Avatar


Klondeikbar
01.11.2012 , 01:42 PM | #565
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSublimitas View Post
Agreed

But I just want to play a game that actually works. Turn it on, log in, and go kill something.
Then go pirate it. That's the delicious irony of DRM. No matter how much we want to actually pay for a game, the pirated DRM free version is almost always higher quality. THANKS FOR THAT UBISOFT!

nonforma's Avatar


nonforma
01.11.2012 , 01:42 PM | #566
Based on my logs:

The secondary process is only accessing registry information about the entire system, no TCP communication either with local or remote servers.

The only asset it did access was the shaders.bin file.

Chaffery's Avatar


Chaffery
01.11.2012 , 01:43 PM | #567
Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
Side note to the person who mentioned developer debugger. I uninstalled the beta client and removed the directory. This is a digital download from early head start. Not sure if you implied that I did something or it is something else or that is what it is.

Just saying I notice two processes.
Should be same for everyone, I'm using retail DVD version, never participated to beta test.
Got 2 32Bit swtor.exe's running, one is taking 270K and other bit over 1Gb RAM.

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 01:43 PM | #568
Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
^^

Yeah - so far all I saw was the one PID swtor.exe 6772 doing a lot of reads but I'm only at the character creation screen though. At least two threads munging on program files (x86)\electronic arts\bioware\star wars - the old republic\assets\swtor_main_bnk_streamed_b_1.tor

Once I log in then it spawns several threads pulling in the main art pieces. Vehicle, area, global, art, etc. The "streamed" piece is interesting though but could be anything.

I don't see the other pid accessing files though at all. But damn the 6772 client process ID is spooling some serious disk reads
the 'bnk' in there reminds me of the bink video/audio codecs you used to see being used for cinematics on games all the time. Other than that your guess is as good as mine.

Quote: Originally Posted by nonforma View Post
Based on my logs:

The secondary process is only accessing registry information about the entire system, no TCP communication either with local or remote servers.

The only asset it did access was the shaders.bin file.
Just scanning the registry? Could very well be our 'warden' if that's the case.
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 01:44 PM | #569
I still type too fast. -.0
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

Grammarye's Avatar


Grammarye
01.11.2012 , 01:44 PM | #570
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiron_Raptor View Post
Well I got yellow used to announce the dev posts, for obvious reasons. Red to try to get people to see the big huge caveat. What color to use to differentiate the rest then, neon green? And technically it's just 'blue' per the forums...I can go lighten it up a bit maybe.

And actually I've been editing the post to try to clarify things to keep people from misunderstanding and jumping to quite so many false conclusions, so that newcomers reading it get a better idea of what's going on. Also adding in whatever plausible bits of explanation I can come up with, but without modifying the text or locking it off until it's confirmed.

Things that are pretty well conclusively proven wrong are closed off in spoiler tags and labeled to that effect within them as well. I'd use strikethrough instead but that doesn't seem to be an option, at least not that I can find.
I understand that, but on my reading, there's a heck of a lot of hyberbole & speculation still in the white sections - maybe that's just my reading of it. I just would prefer to see it kept to known facts, and leave the speculation for the thread itself. For an equivalent example, you don't go labelling a process a rootkit until you are very very sure of what it does. Even the thread title assumes and implies a copy protection system in place. A newcomer is very much led down a given path of thinking. You still have statements like:
Quote:
Performance drop in areas with a lot of characters? The DLL Referenced in the textures thread appears, from what I can tell, to be specifically related to character models in particular, so it's logical that the performance hit from the remote rendering would be worst when there are many characters on screen.

It makes so much sense, and potentially ties together a large number of the problems people have been reporting.

And for what? Copy protecting the models? Seriously?

Deliberately crippling the performance and appearance of the game for legitimate, paying customers in order to keep someone from being able to rebuild your 3D models? It has to be one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.

Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
Oh - and I might as well add:

SWTOR.exe PID 6772 (they main pid I think that is doing all the disk reads, etc) is:

935.220 MB memory / 900,488 private

SWTOR.exe PID 2156 (the secondary process the above guy is doing something with) is:
292,824 MB memory / 197,776 private

That is a heafty primary process, huh?
Seriously, what exactly is the news about TOR having two processes? Out of process communication & proxy processes are pretty commonplace. I've written two in the last year for our product; it enables you to do all sorts of things. Please stop with the utterly unhelpful rampant speculation as to what they do. You don't know unless you've looked at the code. A bunch of numbers is frankly meaningless statistics about activity, not what activity they are doing. Of course those two processes are going to communicate - they wouldn't be there if they weren't. Forgive me if I sound perjorative or terse, but as a software engineer I really would prefer to see some hard facts about the code itself. The Wireshark idea is an interesting one.

Has it occurred to anyone at all yet that the words Remote Renderer mean 'remote as in another process' because I'd surely consider calling a remote rendering server that I run next to the main app so as to work around 32-bit address space limitations exactly that.
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