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Trooper or Smugglers VS Jedi

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Trooper or Smugglers VS Jedi

Solzean's Avatar


Solzean
01.11.2012 , 01:05 PM | #11
Yea, I just have always wondered. We tend to make the Jedi out to be the greatest fighters in the universe. I can think of examples such as when Han Solo gets the jump on Darth Vader over the Death Star and could have realistically finished Vader off if he had realized the importance of his target. There are multiple occasions where the Jedi have someone get the jump on them, especially order 66.

I also wonder if it could be a matter of rock paper scissors when it comes to a lot of these things. Smuggler generally seems to be the one that would fair the worst, but i dont think we give them enough credit. They make a living out of NOT getting caught. That and Vader was unable to sense them all in the Millennium Falcon.

I wonder if the Expanded Universe is partly at fault for the Jedi seeming to be unstoppable. In the movies they are clearly vulnerable. In a lot of the books they appear to be unstoppable warriors unless another Force user comes after them.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.11.2012 , 01:11 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Solzean View Post
Yea, I just have always wondered. We tend to make the Jedi out to be the greatest fighters in the universe. I can think of examples such as when Han Solo gets the jump on Darth Vader over the Death Star and could have realistically finished Vader off if he had realized the importance of his target. There are multiple occasions where the Jedi have someone get the jump on them, especially order 66.

I also wonder if it could be a matter of rock paper scissors when it comes to a lot of these things. Smuggler generally seems to be the one that would fair the worst, but i dont think we give them enough credit. They make a living out of NOT getting caught. That and Vader was unable to sense them all in the Millennium Falcon.

I wonder if the Expanded Universe is partly at fault for the Jedi seeming to be unstoppable. In the movies they are clearly vulnerable. In a lot of the books they appear to be unstoppable warriors unless another Force user comes after them.
I think this was said during either the SW class quest or maybe just a throwaway quest that had lines for a Sith. But one of the Force-users in the Empire mentioned the Force beginning to weaken.

So it could be that during the ToR era Jedi and Sith were tiers above what have come later.

Risq's Avatar


Risq
01.11.2012 , 01:24 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Solzean View Post
So I was just wondering lore wise if the Trooper and Smuggler would stand much of a chance against a Jedi. I assume that in a 1 on 1 situation in which they were thrown into an arena the Jedi would usually win. The question kinda comes down to would you need the absolute best Smuggler or Trooper to stand up to a mediocre Jedi?
Are you asking about in Lore or in game?

In lore, from what I've always read, unless the Smuggler/Trooper/Bounty Hunter was highly skilled (or they went after younglings, padawan's, or new Jedi's) they avoided the older Jedi's like they carried Atom bombs under their clothing.

In game .... lets just say a group of 10 Troops against a group of 10 force users is just sad ... for the force users I mean.
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Solzean's Avatar


Solzean
01.11.2012 , 01:27 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Risq View Post
Are you asking about in Lore or in game?

In lore, from what I've always read, unless the Smuggler/Trooper/Bounty Hunter was highly skilled (or they went after younglings, padawan's, or new Jedi's) they avoided the older Jedi's like they carried Atom bombs under their clothing.

In game .... lets just say a group of 10 Troops against a group of 10 force users is just sad ... for the force users I mean.
I mean lorewise. My post talks about a few points in the Movies it seems where non force users were easily able to hide or get the jump on force users. I just wonder exactly how powerful force users truly are.

Like my other post said, I get the feelings the EU books probably over do the Forces power. Then again, after reading a great many of the books I have been extremely disappointed with how they take the story which makes me bias.

Prvtdonut's Avatar


Prvtdonut
01.11.2012 , 04:13 PM | #15
In lore, smugglers aren't fighters. They might be able to pull some dirty tricks, but usually you would be more concerned with getting your cargo to the buyer quickly and safely, and avoid conflicts. Han happened to be an accomplished marksman because he washed out of the Imperial Academy because he couldn't take it when an officer was beating a wookiee.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.11.2012 , 04:22 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Prvtdonut View Post
In lore, smugglers aren't fighters. They might be able to pull some dirty tricks, but usually you would be more concerned with getting your cargo to the buyer quickly and safely, and avoid conflicts. Han happened to be an accomplished marksman because he washed out of the Imperial Academy because he couldn't take it when an officer was beating a wookiee.
Something tells me most smugglers are going to learn how to be a good shot.

Canino's Avatar


Canino
01.11.2012 , 05:01 PM | #17

I must say most smugglers are fighters. I mean if they can't get out of dangerous situation alive, then they must stink at smuggling, look at Han vs. Greedo for my point. I do think that if they had the element of surprise and cover they might be able to win. Look at Jango vs. Obi-wan. If Jango just had a grenade or better rocket, Luke might not have ever met a" Ben Kenobi" Most smugglers fight dirty too. I think they might have a reasonable chance.
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
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JawaJedi's Avatar


JawaJedi
01.11.2012 , 05:57 PM | #18
Atton Rand was a Jedi Killer and for our purposed, a smuggler, turns out he was force sensitive, but there were plenty train like him to do it.
Which leads to me to our conclusion, there is nothing *special* about a smuggler or trooper or some random non force user. They all start in the same boat, so an exceptional non force user could in fact take down a non force user. They would simply have to be smart about it.
Hell in this game, smugglers at least and I would assume plenty of other non-force users take down plenty of force users. Thus, it is completely plausible. They're not mediocre force users either.
Quote: Originally Posted by Saevio View Post
I haven't understood anything anyone has said in this thread so far. That's common on these forums though.

depth_mil's Avatar


depth_mil
01.12.2012 , 05:20 AM | #19
It's only the really, really powerful force users that are nearly insurmountable for non force users (in this time period, vitiate for example), but even they aren't completely immortal.

Obadaya's Avatar


Obadaya
01.12.2012 , 08:47 AM | #20
I figure in a one-on-one fight with any non-force user, the Jedi or Sith would just levitate and choke the adversary to death in one move (could just start by force gouging his eyes and blinding him). Heck, the just force crushing someone's larynx would end the fight right here.

Don't think the game implements any of that.