Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

Badbal's Avatar


Badbal
01.11.2012 , 12:04 PM | #441
Quote: Originally Posted by miliways View Post
Again, they are working with a 3rd party engine, the Hero Engine, so this makes everything harder.
In Game rendering is done by Bioware's own code.
Hero Engine is nothing but a glorified World Editor in regards to SWTOR.
¶█╬╬╬╬╬╬°¯°█|{███████████████████████████████████████) *Pewwwww*

Vaxmand's Avatar


Vaxmand
01.11.2012 , 12:05 PM | #442
Interesting read, I hope Bioware responds with a full explanation. Low framerate is ruining my SWTOR experience and, quite frankly, will make me unsubscribe if not addressed.

Merwanor's Avatar


Merwanor
01.11.2012 , 12:05 PM | #443
If it is true, then this is one of the biggest development fails in recent memory... Copy protection on a online game... now that is new to me.
The Dark Side of the Force is the pathway to many abilities some consider to be… Unnatural.

nonforma's Avatar


nonforma
01.11.2012 , 12:06 PM | #444
Quote: Originally Posted by Merwanor View Post
If it is true, then this is one of the biggest development fails in recent memory... Copy protection on a online game... now that is new to me.
Sadly I wouldn't be surprised at all if they attempted to use this form of copy protection despite such huge drawbacks.

Jonlinar's Avatar


Jonlinar
01.11.2012 , 12:07 PM | #445
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiron_Raptor View Post
This wouldn't provide any real security, because all you'd have to do is intercept the decryption key once via packet sniffing. You'd need to find some way to change the key regularly that didn't result in keys being sent to or stored on the client system. This would require re-encrypting the whole thing every time the key changed. I can kinda think of a way you could do this, but it'd still be open to attack during the windows between changeovers, and it'd be hugely complicated and resource intensive to implement.

It'd make much more sense to just have it built into the decryption system directly: you could still get at it, but instead of just intercepting a packet, you'd have to crack open the executable itself. Bit harder. Still get broken eventually.
Actually it's very easy, from a procedural perspective. You attach a debugger and watch what is being stored in memory. Essentially, whenever a comparison is done with data, that data is stored in memory and you can look at that data with a debugger. You then watch this entire process and game it a bit like provoking specific actions and seeing what happens to learn how it works. Using this, it's only a matter of time to figure out things like descryption keys because somewhere there is a line of code that says "does this passed in key equal the real key" and that's where the real key is stored in memory somewhere and you see it using a tool like this. That's why, ultimately, DRM is a joke. It's only a matter of time before someone finds the address where an application stores its key.

Baracca's Avatar


Baracca
01.11.2012 , 12:08 PM | #446
I just picked up a Radeon 7970. Can't wait to install it after work Should be interesting to see just how much performance I get.... or not

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 12:10 PM | #447
OP Modified: Additional text added:

"it has been stated further on, but not confirmed, that the 'RemoteRenderer' is just part of the normal rendering system, and may be a renaming of or replacement for an original Hero Engine Component: The name may just be a coincidence. Hard data needed."
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

electronicvomit's Avatar


electronicvomit
01.11.2012 , 12:11 PM | #448
Thats it I'm calling George Lucas! I cant play warzones because of copy protection issues?! Whata joke.

miliways's Avatar


miliways
01.11.2012 , 12:12 PM | #449
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiron_Raptor View Post
I haven't seen you 'debunk' anything yet. All you've done so far is misinterpreted what was claimed in the most absurd way possible and then dismissing it for being absurd.

The actual claims being made as part of the theory you haven't substantially touched, and haven't offered a valid explanation as to how it's impossible, since what you're stating is impossible isn't what's being claimed is probably actually happening.

You're denying the existence of the moon when I'm just speculating that all the 'seas' locked facing Earth because they imbalance it and make that side 'heavier'.
If what you suggested was at all the case, there'd be a performance difference for me connecting to US vs EU servers. There isn't.

If what you suggested was at all the case, people with 20mbs connections would have better performance than people with 1mbs connections. They don't.

Transferring animations or textures in real-time to EVERY game user is physically impossible. They do not have the computers neccesary to handle that amount of bandwidth, not even google does.

They could do what Gaikai and OnLive does, which is to render everything and stream the video, but the fact that I can turn on AntiAliasing in the graphics control manager proves that local rendering is being done.

You can watch a youtube video of somebody playing a game, and turning on force AA will not effect the video. AA requires depth data. But you force AA on, and SWTOR is AA'd. Ergo, it must be rendering locally.

You suggested that maybe just character models or animations are being streamed. Again, they don't have the number of servers necessarily to pull something like that off. Google doesn't. That is just SO MUCH traffic, think about it. 350,000 concurrent users downloading, say even 1 megabyte of data per second.

Then there's the fact that during gameplay, your transfer is usually in the kb/s range, not hte mb/s range, which the game would require for Gaikai / OnLive style play, MUCH LESS actually streaming models and animations or textures which would require upwards of 16MB/s to even get close to realistic (still not going to happen, animations are even bigger than textures).

You can verify these things yourself.

All of these points have been made at least 3 times, by myself, in addition to others.

And now Bioware has come out and admitted what is going on, addressed the issue, and nowhere was any sort of streaming or local server or decryption or bandwidth or server issue mentioned. We have a perfectly, 100% logical explanation for why high resolution textures are not available.


PLEASE MODIFY YOUR ORIGINAL POST.
THESE ARE NOT THE DROIDS YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

miliways's Avatar


miliways
01.11.2012 , 12:13 PM | #450
Quote: Originally Posted by Badbal View Post
In Game rendering is done by Bioware's own code.
Hero Engine is nothing but a glorified World Editor in regards to SWTOR.
That may be true, but [citation required] ?