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Here is an interesting thought. Are Operations REALLY competitive and viable content?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Here is an interesting thought. Are Operations REALLY competitive and viable content?

Bloodtau's Avatar


Bloodtau
01.10.2012 , 06:09 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by ihateyouall View Post
it means everything to the guild who was first, and nothing to everyone else
^^ This. When a guild spams "LOLZ I IZ FIRSTZ", no body actually gives a damn, except themselves. Some kind of wanting meaning and acceptance to an empty life they are living.

Anilon's Avatar


Anilon
01.10.2012 , 06:11 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by TheHeadCapper View Post
He's been trolling the forums non stop all day for weeks now. It's either a full time job for him or a very sad existence.


Once you put him and two other users on ignore the forums become a lot better.
Wow! Thank you! I didn't know I could ignore forum users. Just set him on ignore - big difference!
Champion Anilon Rintori - Level 50 Gunslinger - Sharpshooter
Nolina Rintori - Level 30 Scoundrel - Sawbones

freakuancy's Avatar


freakuancy
01.10.2012 , 06:13 PM | #13
Those who find it fun and rewarding, find it fun and rewarding.

Those who do not, do not.

I know this seems very zen and over-simplified but its the honest truth.

Why are we looking at the raiders and saying "Oh thats just dumb, I can't stand the competitiveness"? Then don't raid. Do your own thing.

Likewise, why do raiders look at the non-raiders (see how I avoided using the term casual?) and say they aren't real MMO players?

Is it really so difficult to simply play the game how you wish to play it, enjoy the MANY facets this game offers, and ignore those that do not interest you?

No, it's not. Except for the rewards, and therein lies the true sticky point. Non-raiders think it is unfair that raiders get items they cannot obtain. Then when dev's change this so that 'everyone' can have these rewards, the raiders find it unfair that people who did not go through the effort are still rewarded.

Both arguments are viable, however they also perpetuate one another.

It is therefor the developers duty to make all facets of the game equally rewarding, and believe me this is a challenge facing Bioware, Blizzard, NCSoft and every other MMO developer, one that becomes increasingly important as the market grows and attracts new types of players.

Note, however, that equally rewarding does not mean "the same reward". PvP'rs and PvE'rs have understood this for years, and have different gear rewards. This is necessary because of the different stats needed for these respective activities, however it's had the additional side-benefit of the rewards only being attractive to those who choose to focus on that particular facet of content.

Now we have people who do not wish to do either -- they are here for the story. And they want some kind of reward for finishing the story. They do not want to raid, they do not want to PvP. They want to use the abilities that look cool, but are not necessarily the most effective. They want to play the game in the manner that they find most appealing, and you know what -- thats fine. Good for them. And they shouldn't be left out in the cold in terms of rewards for their efforts, regardless of how you and I feel about the validity of calling it 'effort'.

It is the developers challenge to reward these players in a way that is suitable to their playstyle, that won't make the 'rest of us' feel like our effort is wasted, and won't leave them feeling like they're being punished for playing the way they want.
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freakuancy's Avatar


freakuancy
01.10.2012 , 06:14 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Bloodtau View Post
^^ This. When a guild spams "LOLZ I IZ FIRSTZ", no body actually gives a damn, except themselves. Some kind of wanting meaning and acceptance to an empty life they are living.
This isn't true. There is a raiding scene, and those of us involved in the raiding scene pay close attention to world-firsts, and are entertained by the race.

Do not condescend something just because you in particular find no interest in it.
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TheHeadCapper's Avatar


TheHeadCapper
01.10.2012 , 06:15 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Anilon View Post
Wow! Thank you! I didn't know I could ignore forum users. Just set him on ignore - big difference!
No worries, that was a very happy day for me when someone told me about it!
The formula 'two plus two equals five' is not without its attractions

Bloodtau's Avatar


Bloodtau
01.10.2012 , 06:17 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by freakuancy View Post
This isn't true. There is a raiding scene, and those of us involved in the raiding scene pay close attention to world-firsts, and are entertained by the race.

Do not condescend something just because you in particular find no interest in it.
Lol "raiding scene".... heard everything now. You mean those people who take the game way to seriously, ***** and moan about people wanting to have fun behind their backs? Those kind of people? Yeah, i'd rather not be associated with them at all to be fair.

Swaye's Avatar


Swaye
01.10.2012 , 06:17 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by freakuancy View Post
Those who find it fun and rewarding, find it fun and rewarding.

Those who do not, do not.

I know this seems very zen and over-simplified but its the honest truth.

Why are we looking at the raiders and saying "Oh thats just dumb, I can't stand the competitiveness"? Then don't raid. Do your own thing.

Likewise, why do raiders look at the non-raiders (see how I avoided using the term casual?) and say they aren't real MMO players?

Is it really so difficult to simply play the game how you wish to play it, enjoy the MANY facets this game offers, and ignore those that do not interest you?

No, it's not. Except for the rewards, and therein lies the true sticky point. Non-raiders think it is unfair that raiders get items they cannot obtain. Then when dev's change this so that 'everyone' can have these rewards, the raiders find it unfair that people who did not go through the effort are still rewarded.

Both arguments are viable, however they also perpetuate one another.

It is therefor the developers duty to make all facets of the game equally rewarding, and believe me this is a challenge facing Bioware, Blizzard, NCSoft and every other MMO developer, one that becomes increasingly important as the market grows and attracts new types of players.

Note, however, that equally rewarding does not mean "the same reward". PvP'rs and PvE'rs have understood this for years, and have different gear rewards. This is necessary because of the different stats needed for these respective activities, however it's had the additional side-benefit of the rewards only being attractive to those who choose to focus on that particular facet of content.

Now we have people who do not wish to do either -- they are here for the story. And they want some kind of reward for finishing the story. They do not want to raid, they do not want to PvP. They want to use the abilities that look cool, but are not necessarily the most effective. They want to play the game in the manner that they find most appealing, and you know what -- thats fine. Good for them. And they shouldn't be left out in the cold in terms of rewards for their efforts, regardless of how you and I feel about the validity of calling it 'effort'.

It is the developers challenge to reward these players in a way that is suitable to their playstyle, that won't make the 'rest of us' feel like our effort is wasted, and won't leave them feeling like they're being punished for playing the way they want.
Perfectly written.

Ganadorf's Avatar


Ganadorf
01.10.2012 , 06:18 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Anilon View Post
Several things in your post are very derogatory. If you don't find this game a challenge, don't play.

I see in your signature you have cancelled 5 days ago - why are you on the forums? What do you stand to gain from this?
I don't care about a "challenge", and I've been done with Raiding for a couple years now, anyway

I was simply answering a question, asked by the OP

Anilon's Avatar


Anilon
01.10.2012 , 06:18 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by freakuancy View Post
This isn't true. There is a raiding scene, and those of us involved in the raiding scene pay close attention to world-firsts, and are entertained by the race.

Do not condescend something just because you in particular find no interest in it.
While you have a point here about his attitude - the core point remains valid: it is a small segment of the population that enjoys that race.

When you take that into consideration, and then factor in the development time of a raid, it just doesn't make sense. It is why WoW is finding ways to allow 80%+ of the player base to see raiding content in different difficulties.
Champion Anilon Rintori - Level 50 Gunslinger - Sharpshooter
Nolina Rintori - Level 30 Scoundrel - Sawbones

freakuancy's Avatar


freakuancy
01.10.2012 , 06:18 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Bloodtau View Post
Lol "raiding scene".... heard everything now. You mean those people who take the game way to seriously, ***** and moan about people wanting to have fun behind their backs? Those kind of people? Yeah, i'd rather not be associated with them at all to be fair.
That is your choice, and you should read my post above regarding that choice.

However if you continue to be insulting and inflammatory just for the sake of being insulting and inflammatory I'm going to start flagging your posts, as Bioware has instructed me to do.
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