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CHOICE IS AN ILLUSION - not an RPG - MMO on rails

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
CHOICE IS AN ILLUSION - not an RPG - MMO on rails

Arkimor's Avatar


Arkimor
01.10.2012 , 04:05 PM | #181
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterShake View Post
My first ~15 levels or so I made choices made as if I were roleplaying (something I hardly EVER do in games). I wanted to feel connected to my character.

I killed a few NPCs who were real a-holes, and I saved some other people who didn't deserve a grisly fate. Then went to the light/dark side vendors and saw all of the relics were based on your light/dark points.

I had accrued 1200 light side and 1050 dark side. I could use exactly zero relics in the game.

Worst game design.

Ever.
Yeah, a lot of the mechanics weren't fully thought out, sadly.
Killer: 100%|Achiever: 40%| Socializer: 33%| Explorer: 33%

Warnings: 15 Infractions: 8
Quote: Originally Posted by Xugos View Post
This forum has better PvP than TOR, brah.

Amdarius's Avatar


Amdarius
01.10.2012 , 04:06 PM | #182
Quote: Originally Posted by Nerdwing View Post
Kaliyo threatened to kill me, directly, during the course of the IA storyline. Later on, she reappears and her threats are totally forgotten. You dont get a chance to mention it, and -GOD FORBID- tell her to get bent and leave your party or be shot.

But thankfully, it was all voice acted!
LOL.. ^^This.

Also, without giving away too much, there's an instance in the Sith Warrior campaign where a companion betrays you. Yet you don't have the choice to kill him/her. You're pretty much forced to allow them back into your crew.

Nerdwing's Avatar


Nerdwing
01.10.2012 , 04:07 PM | #183
Quote: Originally Posted by Kurnea View Post
You were expecting perhaps the option to say whatever you wanted and for Kaliyo to respond intelligently in real time? No themepark game is going to have true freedom in regards to choices and how it pans out. It's one big massive decision true, where if-else statements are piled on upon yet more if-else statements.

If you want to tell an NPC to get bent and have it react realistically, then you need another person on the other end somewhere. For what the game is, I'm fine with it. If I wanted something beyond that, I'd be playing pen & paper.
Why? Why do they have to be on the other end? She's a pre-written NPC, she could be pre-written to reply to you telling her to go f*ck herself. Instead, you're given the 3 choices of "Grrr im so mad welcome back" "Welcome back" and "I missed ya welcome back"

Why no "Go away"?

Viera's Avatar


Viera
01.10.2012 , 04:07 PM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by al_giordino View Post
I really love Star Wars and in the beginning, I thought everyone on the forums was WRONG and SWTOR was the best thing ever. I've been trying to love SWTOR but the problem is the story and linearity, plus BORING QUEST COMBAT. You simply must do story quests in order, and EVERY non-story quest is too easy at the level you can do it, and you can't simply take on higher level (non-story) quests for a challenge because they are "greyed out".

Honestly, I want to die sometimes from a big challenge. Or I want to take on a challenge and succeed and get some item that's powerful for my level. I want to be able to CHOOSE what challenges I take on, not forced into quest lines that are easy and boring.

In the end, I feel like I'm watching a movie where I'm forced to move the main character without freedom of choice...."I HAVE to run him here"....and I have to choose dialogue that makes NO difference to the plot... HENCE IT'S BORING.

What I've found myself doing is following a story I have no impact on - in the order prescribed - and the experience is dull.

Even the lightside/darkside choices are not a true CHOICE in that you're forced to follow one path or the other for corresponding items.

No two ways about it, this is an MMO on rails - instead of the "rail driven shooter" it's a rail driven MMO. These rails even hamper grouping while leveling because other friends / players will either be behind you or ahead of you in the prescribed order you can do quests. It's been difficult to find someone on the exact quest I'm on, so that we can group together and complete the story line and side quests together - frankly it's happened about once in 25 levels.

I must compare it to WoW in that, in WoW, you had different ways to level and different zones etc. You could choose where to go and when, with whom, and how to level... you could grind, or you could quest, or even just PVP, or do some combination thereof. You could choose the zones to go to... bored with helping the elves Ashenvale? Head to another zone of your choice. DO WHATEVER YOU FEEL LIKE.

That's the difference. You can't do whatever you feel like in SWTOR, you're confined.

In the endgame of WoW, you had a character who saved X Village, who rescued the damsel XXX and defeated the evil Zs. I never even killed the Lich King, nor was I forced to, in order to advance. The point is, not everyone had the same experience or story! You could skip whole areas to level in another of your preference. You created your own story and your own adventure. In SWTOR, everyone of your class has the SAME experience and story. And this is a huge negative.

Sorry, but simply choosing abilities does not make a game an RPG. In an RPG, you need freedom of choice so your character has his own background and story that's not the same as everyone else.

Last night I completed the Nar Shadaa quests for my Sith Inquisitor, and I was given the option to go to Tatooine or Alderaan for my next series of quests. The choice was false. I figured I'll go to the higher level planet of Alderaan because thus far I've been bored by going to the planet for my corresponding level, and thus I know I'd be bored by the quests on Tatooine. Well, here's the problem, instead of letting me make this choice, in Alderaan the quests were greyed out, so my only "choice" is to go to Tatooine - which I have no interest in doing because the quests are sure to be BORING because the designers are dictating that I can only do such and such at this level - it's easy and boring mind you - so that's just a terrible decision in how the quests (and corresponding character adventure) are forced upon you.

For the record, I will keep playing SWTOR but in smaller increments, and enjoying it for what it is, instead of what it should have been/ could be / what I wished it to be.
Except you're wrong and there are choices. I have made dialogue choices which have resulted in different outcomes, experienced things differently from my friends for those choices. I have had no trouble grouping up with people or even finding people on the same quest as I am.

For that matter, on my Sith Juggernaut I have played with my girlfriend since level 1. She is a Sith Inquisitor. We have skipped entire zones and sections of planets because we managed to out level them and didn't feel the need to keep going. I was able to leave Alderann before I even finished most of the side quests, same with Tatooine.

Level via PvP? Yep. On my trooper I leveled from 10 to 14 doing basically nothing but PvP Warzones. Really, none of your complaints exist.
"I was a historian once, gathering the relics of the Jedi, learning the ancient mysteries. Always, there were more questions."

Aloro's Avatar


Aloro
01.10.2012 , 04:12 PM | #185
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterShake View Post
"You can change paths..."

Oh, so instead of picking every light side option, I can now pick every dark side option?
Or, just a thought... you could just pick the options that appeal to you, or for that matter you could pick the options that you imagine your character would pick. People call that "roleplaying". It doesn't appeal to everyone but some people quite enjoy it.

You're deliberately putting blinders on yourself then complaining about tunnel vision.

Quaade's Avatar


Quaade
01.10.2012 , 04:12 PM | #186
Quote: Originally Posted by LizardSF View Post
You can't have an "impact" on the world if it's going to undercut someone else's opportunity to experience the same content. They're paying the same as you; why shouldn't they get to kill the same bosses as you?
Yes you can, if TOR used the same phasing technology as Blizzard, none of the quests would be "one time only" and you would still see the world change according to your actions.

It would be more satisfying than being told you changed things when you can take two steps back where you came from and see nothing has happened.

Sure, you get told a great deal many times you have driven the Rakghouls back across Taris, the moment you leave the main city, you still run into the very same Rakghouls as when you arrived.
If there was a few proper phasings instead of just phases, those area could be free of Rakghouls and in the process of being rebuilt.

abishe's Avatar


abishe
01.10.2012 , 04:14 PM | #187
Quote: Originally Posted by Aloro View Post
Or, just a thought... you could just pick the options that appeal to you, or for that matter you could pick the options that you imagine your character would pick. People call that "roleplaying". It doesn't appeal to everyone but some people quite enjoy it.

You're deliberately putting blinders on yourself then complaining about tunnel vision.
you do know, picking a off the road choose, ones set is dubble penalty?
-50=-100.
10.000 side points is a lot mate, if you not start early choose a side you will never make 10.000 at the end of the line.

UKAlderon's Avatar


UKAlderon
01.10.2012 , 04:19 PM | #188
OP actually makes a really good point. Of course the legions of blind fanboys rush to take up arms once again but he's right.

Previous Bioware single-player RPGs gave the player much more of a feeling of true choice, even if it was actually thickly-veiled illusion. In SW:ToR there is not even the slightest attempt at disguising the lack of choice.

It feels to me as though they spent all that time going on about what a great story they had and 'oh look at our expensive voice-actors' that they forgot to make a game around it.

I'm still having fun in-game but it's nothing to do with the much-vaulted 'story.' I just farm warzones, stomping the so-called 'overpowered' Imperials.

I wasn't even actually intending to play this game, I'm waiting for GW2 and TSW but lack of anything else to waste time on combined with curiousity made me buy the standard edition at launch. (So you can't tell me to 'go back to WoW.' I never came from there to begin with.)

sebbulba's Avatar


sebbulba
01.10.2012 , 04:21 PM | #189
Quote: Originally Posted by Nerdwing View Post
Why? Why do they have to be on the other end? She's a pre-written NPC, she could be pre-written to reply to you telling her to go f*ck herself. Instead, you're given the 3 choices of "Grrr im so mad welcome back" "Welcome back" and "I missed ya welcome back"

Why no "Go away"?
I'd love to see the dozens of thousands of threads people QQing about wanting back the companions which they sent away.

I see the OP's point, I'm not too eager to make an alt on the same faction too soon, because I have to do the same planets in the same order.

They could have added some smaller planets without class quests, just to fill the gap between the class quests on the different planets so if you're not in to nar shadaa, you just go through your class quest and can enjoy a planet storyline on dantooine for instance.

LoL-K-Noob's Avatar


LoL-K-Noob
01.10.2012 , 04:22 PM | #190
Welcome to your first themepark MMO