The Expertise stat has to go...

Agreed. We really should have a PvE stat and not a PvP stat. It only makes it difficult to get to the point that one is competitive considering soon you will be attacking people in battlemaster gear who have a 20% damage swing on you ( they do 10% more than you and you do 10% less). A PvE stat would solve this ie you deal 10% more damage to a mob. Putting you at a disadvantage to PvP geared people but not making it seem impossible to compete.

Other than the "exclusivity" of being %10 better at any given PvE/PvP activity in this game; why do we need any special stats at all?

Want to join my pre-made? How much expertise you got?
Want to join my raid? How much (PvE stat) you got?

You know people are going to do it.
I've seen it in other games. Denied because you didn't spend most of your time on whatever activity.

Although, if players were rewarded with equally strong gear from either PvP or PvE, everyone can enjoy whatever aspect of the game they want to at any time as long as he/she has earned the gear.

I personally enjoy both, and it would be great if I could effectively mix my PvE and PvP gear without worrying about my 'special' stat. Instead I can play whichever part of the game I want each day and have a chance to get an upgrade.

So no more PvP geared people owning PvE players because of "expertise".
No more Raid geared players "blowing" people up in Warzones because they are decked in Raid gear.

Why? Everyone has access to the same strength of gear. Just spend time enjoying the game however you please and it will come to you.

Top end PvP gear already comes in those random loot bags so its not always a 'sure' thing.
Just like looting a Raid boss.

Let your victories come because you are a good player and not because of a 'special' stat on your gear.

my opinion

The question is though if the stat is there just to keep the PVE gear out why does it increase with each tier of gear. Its existence alone should be enough to keep the PVE gear out. The ever increasing scaling between tiers breaks the game.

I wouldn't even say you need a state. Just have something like 5 PVP gear pieces per tier each piece reduces PVP damage by 5% for a 25% damage reduction total.

Thats it in a nut shell. We dont want PVP becoming an elitists e-sport that no one plays. All that we need is a set damage reduction for using a PVP set. No scaling between tiers.

Couldn't agree with that more, however, thats basically what PvP is supposed to be. At least according to every "hardcore" pvper I've ever met.

They all support systems in which only the most "dedicated" or "lifeless" players have access to virtually any gear worth using, then turn around and claim that "PvP is only fun on an even playing field" as they gleefully kill ungeared nubs in their pre-mades, somehow feeling "skilled" at the end of the day.

It's rather amusing and contradicting to say the least.

Sorry, but virtually every MMO is a grind. The hardcore always gear faster and get there first. It is true in PvE and PvP. Bioware is following this trend, for good or bad. This MMO is not revolutionary by BW's own statements.

Still the best I've played in terms of story and concept. If only SWG had had story behind it and no crappy CU.

I dont have time to raid. I love to pvp. Why does pve gear have to be better then pvp gear. You do not need expertise to make pvp gear equal. If you coulx get different setz of pvp gear that had the same stats as pve gear then you would not have to raid.

If they put in high stat mods to earn from pvp then you could make your fav armor equal to pve armor. You do not need expertise to compete with pve gear.

It would just be a different way to get gear which is the whole point. If you need expertise to beat someone in pve gead then maybe you need more practice.

If gear is a same then that pisses off the hardcore raiders who only want to pve. There gears ends up on a 1 week lock out while pvpers can get commendations and top level bags each day.

Gives the advantage in pve to those who pvp and pve. So all those guild who want world 1st are forced to pve and pvp gear grind.

FFS, is reading comprehension even taught in schools these days?
EXACTLY what you're describing is why a PVE only stat is used.

I'm sorry if I sound annoyed but it's a little bit hard to grasp why people keep saying the same thing when it's been made clear by so many people in this thread alone.

PVP gear would be useless in PVE without the PVE stat (this isn't some new idea, without the PVE stat raid bosses hit harder and you hit for less), no one would be using PVP gear to raid in. There will ALWAYS be a PVE mob/boss to kill but PVP HAS to have a constant flow of new players else it dies. That's all systems like expertise do, the problem is small now but PVP will slowly die, just like it did in Rift and so many games before it.

New players in PVE gear wouldn't be a problem because the same PVP gear would have the very same stats. If they STILL beat you and you're in equal gear then they are just better PVPers than you, and frankly they deserve to win.

PVP gear and PVE gear should have the same stats, no one would own in PVP with PVE gear but you wouldn't be able to use PVP gear in PVE raids. This isn't some new fancy concept, other games have done it before now.

People need to start waking up to the fact that developers really are clueless, TRUST me I know enough of them. They honestly have the craziest ides about what the average gamers want. I promise you 100% the Rift developers are sat around a table saying "why r teh people not PVPz anymore!?!??! LETS ADD MORE PEEVEEPEE stats, that'll fix it!!!!11!!".

If you introduce a PvE only stat it simply shifts the current problem we have in pvp onto the pve community, it doesn't fix the problem so I am against a pve only stat. They implemented such a thing in LOTRO, called radiance. Bosses in raids had a "gloom" rating which was countered by "radiance" on raid gear. You needed a certain amount of radience to perform even remotely well against a boss.

All that ended up happening was radience, a pve-only stat that only affected bosses, ended up segregating the community. The hardcores, including myself, ground our gear first and got max radience from one set of instances, then focused on raids. The hardcores, myself included, then had no motivation or incentive to repeat lower level instances so the next set of people coming through found it harder to get radience to be able to raid. This meant less new blood for the raiding community and less flexibility if you were a few people short. It took two years, but eventually Turbine admitted their mistake and removed radience. Immediately, more people were raiding and everyone was happier.



Whenever you a stat like expertise or radiance, all it does is segregate the community between the haves and the have-nots. It is bad for the long term surviability of the community. However, at the same time, I fully understand the desire to keep pvp and pve gear completely separate.


The solution, as I've said a few times in this thread, is to make the on ramp extremely easy and to remove the progression of the exclusive stat. So, if Bioware are keeping the expertise stat, my advice would be:

1) Remove all expertise from level 1-49 gear as we'll have the level 1-49 bracket, thus no1 pvping before 50 has to worry about expertise.

2) At 50, add a new set before centurion, purchasable for credits, which adds up to 1000 expertise but has lower stats than centurion

3) Edit centurion, champion and battlemaster gear so that the full sets add up to 1000 expertise.

These three simple steps would solve all the issues with expertise (once the 50 bracket is implemented...). It keeps expertise in there so that pvp gear is completely separate to pve gear so that hardcore pve raiders can't use their epic raid loot to walk all over pvpers. However, it removes expertise as a progression route so that it no longer amplifies the gear gap. By having a purchasable set at 50, there is a very easy on-ramp so fresh 50s can purchase the set instantly and then start pvping without being at an expertise disadvantage. finally, there still remains a pvp gear progression as battlemaster still has superior stats to the other sets, so the carrot is still there for dedicated pvpers.

Thoughts?