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The Expertise stat has to go...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Expertise stat has to go...
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BDutch's Avatar


BDutch
01.10.2012 , 08:30 AM | #541
Quote: Originally Posted by Greatless View Post
Expertise is good for the game. It's there to prevent pvp gear being as good as or better than pve gear in raids. I do not want to pvp for my best pre-raid gear.
Too late, you're better off PvP'ing for gear and skipping T1/T2 PvE gear as it is.

Everyone understands how the system "should" work.
Originally Posted by Puja
The sentinel PVP armor is PINK and POOP colored with golden ******* and a clown helmet my brain is not able to make any sense out of. Then some sort of giant bug from the Jetsons has attached itself to the left shoulder.

iFoo's Avatar


iFoo
01.10.2012 , 08:34 AM | #542
Exactly and I don't want to have to PvE raid as I don't enjoy it, I don't find playing vs scripted AI challenging. I have PvP'd most of my game time and am getting PvP gear to be competitive in PvP, if someone went and killed a raid boss and had equal gear as me after the countless huttball matches I'd done I wouldn't play.

The expertise separates the 2 different gaming types, catering for both and meaning that one side does not have to do the other in order to compete in which ever style they prefer. If they want the best of both worlds they need to farm both types which imo is entirely fair.

Vindexus's Avatar


Vindexus
01.10.2012 , 08:47 AM | #543
Quote: Originally Posted by BDutch View Post
And while we're waiting a couple months for lockouts so people can get a full set of T4 to dominate players without expertise, what has happened meanwhile? 2 weeks in and people already got the gear that supposedly was designed to counter PvE gear that people don't even have.

Now the imbalance this gear created was enough to warrant creating an entirely new bracket... seems like that bandaid really worked out. If they would have put in a raid only stat used for PvE progression instead then the difference between 49 and 50 wouldn't have been something that required an urgent patch. What is the point of bolstering? Enabling people to play with/against eachother. If that is a good thing, then why would you want to do things that split them up instead?

Gear based PvP is a double-edged sword. If you make the gear take a long time to obtain your veteran PvP population will drive off new players every time. If you make the gear quick and easy to obtain then it makes progression trivial and pointless. Either way you sacrifice competition for the sake of a system that is constantly fighting itself to maintain a sustainable population of people that actually want to PvP instead of do this PvE-style grind for gear crap.
^ this guy gets it. The solution to long term PvP viability is to take the gear grind out of it.
And for you people who want to add Expertise to Raid gear, what exactly does that accomplish? Now if I want to PvP, I have to raid? What?
You want people to care about PvP, create a ladder system and organize it. Have people compete for epeen. Post stats on a leaderboard for top healing/kills for the day/week/month.
PvP doesn't have to be about only getting PvP gear. If you remove the gear from PvP you also no longer have to tune your PvE content around people using PvP gear in PvE. People can no longer skip doing HM FPs and lower level Ops by grinding their way through Champ gear. You might actually have to PvE to like.. do PvE content.

BDutch's Avatar


BDutch
01.10.2012 , 08:48 AM | #544
Quote: Originally Posted by iFoo View Post
The expertise separates the 2 different gaming types, catering for both and meaning that one side does not have to do the other in order to compete in which ever style they prefer. If they want the best of both worlds they need to farm both types which imo is entirely fair.
Expertise does not keep people in PvP gear from doing PvE content right now. You can get PvP gear easier/faster that will enable you to farm tokens in PvE.

Expertise does not keep people in PvE gear from destroying PvP players right now. Nobody is running around in full T4. If they were, PvP gear with the same rating is still quicker to get, regardless of the expertise stat.

What expertise does do right now is create a gap between PvP players in PvP.
Originally Posted by Puja
The sentinel PVP armor is PINK and POOP colored with golden ******* and a clown helmet my brain is not able to make any sense out of. Then some sort of giant bug from the Jetsons has attached itself to the left shoulder.

aishiki's Avatar


aishiki
01.10.2012 , 08:56 AM | #545
What gap exactly? If you want PVP set, you grind PVP just as you grind PVE raids. You will lose few times, you might be destroyed but eventually everyone will be on the same level ground since even if you lose, you will get comms and bags anyway. Out of 8 people in the WZ, how many of those have T4 gears?

BDutch's Avatar


BDutch
01.10.2012 , 09:09 AM | #546
Quote: Originally Posted by aishiki View Post
You will lose few times, you might be destroyed but eventually everyone will be on the same level ground since even if you lose, you will get comms and bags anyway.
If you're going to be on the same level ground anyway... and that's a good thing, right? Then why don't you skip breaking up the players and use a system that continues to bring them together instead?
Originally Posted by Puja
The sentinel PVP armor is PINK and POOP colored with golden ******* and a clown helmet my brain is not able to make any sense out of. Then some sort of giant bug from the Jetsons has attached itself to the left shoulder.

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
01.10.2012 , 09:24 AM | #547
I don't understand it either. Personally i would have just given this epic gear one extra slot for an extra stat or something and everything would be customizable. The diffrence betwwen pvp and pve gear could just be cosmetic IMO.

For most of us even that small of a change would be totally worth getting it still.

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
01.10.2012 , 09:25 AM | #548
Quote: Originally Posted by bowiehero View Post
Reverse bolster everyone to a baseline of stats and remove stim / adrenal contribution from PvP. Solved.

Real PvP'ers shouldn't care about all of that, after all, an even playing field = challenge.
I like it.

aishiki's Avatar


aishiki
01.10.2012 , 09:30 AM | #549
Quote: Originally Posted by BDutch View Post
If you're going to be on the same level ground anyway... and that's a good thing, right? Then why don't you skip breaking up the players and use a system that continues to bring them together instead?
Because we have to work to be on that same level ground? Why do you expect a person who does 5 WZ per week to be on the same level as the person who does 5 WZ per day doesn't make any sense to me. I don't even...

WTS> Logic
Kyri - Elise - The Ravager (EU-PVP)
1 month to TERA!

Vyrzeden's Avatar


Vyrzeden
01.10.2012 , 09:41 AM | #550
My 2 cents (from both a casual PvE and PvP player)

1) Expertise is a good idea overall.

2) I'm not a fan of having 2 sets of gear, one for each.

As another poster mentioned have Expertise tied to Valor Ranks. Take it a step further and instead of giving 50's their own tier, break tiers up by valor rank (1-10, 11-20, etc.). You keep Bolster for pre-50's and it ensures everyone is going up against similar "expertise" ranked players.

This way, PvE and PvP gear can be itemized the same with the PvP stat still being tied to strictly doing PvP. In addition, it will help solve the problem of "fresh" PvPers always fighting decked-out expertise PvPers.
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