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Make Mirror classes actual mirrors

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Make Mirror classes actual mirrors

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
01.10.2012 , 06:29 AM | #241
Quote: Originally Posted by Obbu View Post
Abilities with 'travel times' do their damage at server side up front, even if it doesnt register on the player UI.

Thats why sometimes your standing there trying to cast with plenty of health, getting 'cannot activate while dead' messages, and then half a second later you explode.
Delay in Project registers quite nicely in PvE, and nothing is delivered "up front", its quite easy to test it (it has been tested and links posted)

On the topic, can someone do comparison of force wave/overload?

kckkryptonite's Avatar


kckkryptonite
01.10.2012 , 06:34 AM | #242
Quote: Originally Posted by Obbu View Post
Abilities with 'travel times' do their damage at server side up front, even if it doesnt register on the player UI.

Thats why sometimes your standing there trying to cast with plenty of health, getting 'cannot activate while dead' messages, and then half a second later you explode.
No, you're wrong.

Izariel's Avatar


Izariel
01.10.2012 , 06:51 AM | #243
These are all documented imbalances and "strangly" enough all favor the Imps. Roll that into the fact that Imps MASSIVELY outnumber Republics on pvp servers and you get a very bad combination.

FIX THIS NOW BW.

Drakaris's Avatar


Drakaris
01.10.2012 , 06:51 AM | #244
Quote: Originally Posted by Obbu View Post
Abilities with 'travel times' do their damage at server side up front, even if it doesnt register on the player UI.

Thats why sometimes your standing there trying to cast with plenty of health, getting 'cannot activate while dead' messages, and then half a second later you explode.
No, they do not. Here's another example of how huge the difference between Shock and Project is.

Shock/Project are actually quite good dmg dealing abilities and obviously instant (right...). So a lot of time we use them to finish off a target on low health. Sometimes i can get ~3,5-4k from a double project so it's actually quite deadly and major part in my PvP arsenal. Now...

Let's get a stealther. We fight and kick each other arses and... I'm about to finish him off and he knows it. So i use obviously one of my earliest and instant abilities - Project. But, hell no! He sees my silly sage waving her hands in the air, picking up a rock from the ground and... instantly vanishes. Oh, snap! Now few things happen here. You think that because i used an "instant" cast spell with long animation, he actually received the dmg? WRONG! If a stealther uses his vanish or whatever skill makes him go in stealth in combat while i'm casting Project (yes - "casting" Project, not "instant casting") - he does not receive any dmg and you can be sure of that because you will see a friggin ROCK hovering mid-air on your screen. You don't believe it? Ask any sage/shadow here how many times their rocks/droids were floating mid-air because the target vanished in stealth and the spell didn't hit them. And everyone can react to that because the animation is reeealy long. For example when i play vs other republic in Huttball it's quite easy for me to see another sage casting project on me and i just shield myself before the rock hits me and absorb all the dmg thus cutting a substantial part of his burst or saving my a** on 100 hp and healing myself.

Did i also mentioned that even if your target gets in stealth and the rock is floating (thus no dmg was done) you still get a COOLDOWN on Project? Do you also know these nasty 7.9 sec saves on capping an objective? Well, with 2+ sec flying time on project from max distance... yea... good luck.

Or you can just roll an inquisitor and don't have to read this wall of text because your shock just hits the target in a 0,1 sec, instantly as it should be...
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Magnesium's Avatar


Magnesium
01.10.2012 , 06:59 AM | #245
I've always hated how Devs fail to acknowledge some problems and that just keeps to frustrate the player-base because they feel they are not being heard.

I always expected problems to exist, but in a game where classes are meant to be mirrors, I certainly would not have thought we see so many problems which favour the Imp.

Aquatium Only in Light can a Shadow exist
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Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
01.10.2012 , 07:39 AM | #246
I just hope that we don't have to deal with devs with corporate bosses who seem to get prideful, stubborn, and Captain Ahab the game into the ground.

We call that Star Wars Galaxies. Nothing would make them admit defeat when it came to the NGE. Not subscription losses, not empty servers. Nothing.
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TheBadLlama's Avatar


TheBadLlama
01.10.2012 , 12:48 PM | #247
Bumping for notice

RKGray's Avatar


RKGray
01.10.2012 , 12:57 PM | #248
First of all, I would like to say great post to the OP.

I've played a Smuggler, Imperial Agent, Consular and Inquisiter, and have experienced all of the mentioned discrepencies between "mirrored" abilities (Project vs Shock damage delay, Back Blast vs Shiv damage delay, Dirty Kick root, etc.).

All of these problems seem to be caused by differences in animation, and I imagine the Devs are loathe to change them. If that is the case, why not add effects to the "slower" (i.e. Republic) abilities? For example:

Project does the same (delayed) damage, but also causes a "stumble" effect, interrupting casts and activation the GCD - essentially a 1.5 second silence

Back Blast slows the target for 4 seconds (as a shotgun to the back of the head should)

Dirty Kick increases movement speed by 30% (the talent, Dirty Escape, decreases cool down of Dirty Kick only)

Mortar Volley either has a) a wider aoe effect or b) a slow effect within the area of effect for the duration of the cast

These are in addition to the ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED fixes in the Talent trees (i.e. Accomplished Sawbones vs Accomplished Doctor)

Would it break the "mirror" of these abilities? Yes, but in a way that would add utility that make sup for the already broken symmetry, without forcing the Devs to re-imagine and program new attack animations.

Rexell's Avatar


Rexell
01.10.2012 , 01:18 PM | #249
so to the OP, if you make them mirrors are you going to give bigger stat bonuses to the agent's offhand? Right now Vibroknife of the same rating is not as good as a pistol.

Just using the Battlemaster's Enforcer for example.

The pistol and offhand pistol both are
Cunning 103
End 126
Exp 51
Pow 77

and the Vibroknife is
Cunning 85
End 98
Exp 51
Pow 82

Plus all through leveling the blaster pistols available far outclass and outnumber the vibroblades available. Pistols come in orange and are easily upgraded... vibroblades do not.

Personally I'm OK with a few differences. I think it would be boring to always be playing an exact mirror match every time I queue a warzone. If you wanted to do that, why even have 2 factions?

Hesmah's Avatar


Hesmah
01.10.2012 , 01:21 PM | #250
Here's some more things that are unequal (I'm not one for conspiracy theories, and I hadn't thought about it before, but it's kinda weird all these things are in advantage to the Imperial side):

Bounty Hunters have a heat bar of 100 units. Trooper has an ammo bar of 12. For every equivelant ability that troopers use 1 ammo for, a bounty hunter uses 8 units of heat.

So with simple math we can count that 1 ammo equals 8 heat, but 12x8 is 96, meaning that Trooper actually has 4% smaller class resource cap than a bounty hunter with the maximum of 100 heat.

Bounty hunter also vents 5 heat per second at maximum regen speed. A trooper reloads 0,6 ammo cells per second at maximum regen speed.

0,6 x 8 is 4,8. So a trooper gains their resource 4% slower aswell.

This means a BH always has a 4% advantage over the trooper for all class resource usage and regen.


Another one:

IA Explosive Probe is instant. The enemy gets the debuff right away. Smuggler equivelant is a thrown grenade that takes about a second to reach the enemy.

This is even worse than in case of Project. The enemy doesnt have the debuff while smuggler's granade is in the air, meaning it cant explode for roughly a second after cast. IA's probe can explode instantly after it's used.

An IA can also cast a snipe and hit the probe instantly as snipe finishes, making the probe explode right away. This gives them a huge burst advantage compared to a smuggler.