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Okay, is this type of behavior normal? [Fighting over who is the main tank]

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Okay, is this type of behavior normal? [Fighting over who is the main tank]

Nautius's Avatar


Nautius
01.09.2012 , 02:06 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Majestic_Jazz View Post
...
More I think about it, I should have just let him died instead of saving his butt.
No good deed goes unpunished!

A good tank knows when they need help and knows how to guide their group effectively so they can have the least amount of wipes or player deaths.

Here is a good rule of thumb (assuming everyone knows their job):

If a group member dies it's the tanks fault.

If a tank dies, it's the healers fault.

If anything, the person who formed the group should have requested a healer if they wanted one. And if they complain about wiping or people not being healed after not getting a true healer, then it's their own damned fault. Othewise, you make due with what you have.
"Life is tough. It's tougher when you're stupid." - John Wayne
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Majestic_Jazz's Avatar


Majestic_Jazz
01.09.2012 , 02:11 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Nautius View Post

If anything, the person who formed the group should have requested a healer if they wanted one. And if they complain about wiping or people not being healed after not getting a true healer, then it's their own damned fault. Othewise, you make due with what you have.
Which is why in the future, when I look for groups, I will say it like this "LFG <Insert Heroic/Flashpoint> Need 2 DPS & 1 Healer" that way I don't run into the same situation. Same thing when I play as a healer Jedi Sage I'll say "LFG <Insert heroic/flashpoint> Need 2 DPS & 1 Tank"
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Jenarie's Avatar


Jenarie
01.09.2012 , 04:41 PM | #43
You said this is your first MMO and you were looking for insight. But it seems that you are getting a bit defensive... I'd advise you take what you can learn from the thread and move on. You played smart but you have to realize that since it is people in the other three positions and not AI as it is in a single player game you have to communicate so they can properly understand and react to what you are doing.

Another MMO biggie - pickup groups aren't ideal. Find a group of people on your server that you DO like grouping with and do things with them and avoid pickups. The sooner you can do this the more you will like MMOs.

Majestic_Jazz's Avatar


Majestic_Jazz
01.09.2012 , 09:11 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Jenarie View Post
The sooner you can do this the more you will like MMOs.
SWTOR is an anomoly. I still don't classify myself as a MMO gamer. I am only playing SWTOR because of how close it is to playing a single player game with the cutscenes and interactive dialog. Unless future MMOs follow SWTOR's route, I don't see myself playing MMOs longterm outside of SWTOR.
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ryancwn's Avatar


ryancwn
01.09.2012 , 09:27 PM | #45
Played as a offspec healer and tank in SWTOR and various MMO, I can tell you healing 2 tanks is easier than healing 1 tank with all elites mobs spiking the tank. The healing done is the same albeit more work to switch but there are reason why it is easier.

1) Less damage spike to 1 person (so the tank won't die easily)
2) Taunting CD so mobs won't wander and attack the healer, and prolonging the heal (1 sec pushback could wipe the group when you are not healing spec)
3) Absorption shield CD (the CD of the shield is far less than the shield debuff which means you can mitigate more damage with more force cost)
4) Using big heal is more cost effective but spiking damage done to tank means you might need to spam small heal just to keep him alive
5) Damage mitigation CD from both tank utilize.
6) Medpack CD utilize

Fardreamer's Avatar


Fardreamer
01.09.2012 , 09:33 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by PjPablo View Post
Typically you don't want someone taunting off of you if you are the tank. If a 'DPS' is taunting off me I would mention it as well. Also, if there 5 mobs and he is the tank then all 5 should be on him. That's normal.

NOW, despite that it sounds like he might not have been geared or skilled since his health was an issue.
DPS don't have taunts in this game.

And to answer the OP... this level 20 assassin is too used to playing WoW where there's only 1 tank in a small group. He needs to adjust, not you.

The whole mentality that "OMG EVERY MOB MUST BE HITTING ME" is outdated. Tanking the non-strong adds is not required. In a group of 2 golds and 1 grey, the tank shouldn't even bother tanking the grey. Let the DPS nuke it down, and just hold aggro on the two golds.
"In the end, cowards are those who follow the darkside."
-Yoda

Razhah's Avatar


Razhah
01.09.2012 , 09:36 PM | #47
You guys needed to work out what you were going to do. Its poor form just to decide for yourself that you are going to peel mobs off the tank, even if you are a tank yourself. If the guy was dropping too fast for the healer to keep up, he may not have been the best choice to tank either.

I play a trooper medic and I can keep one tank upright pretty much forever if he is comparably geared for the encounter. When I have to start spreading heals around, several things happen. First, I have to spam my larger heals and spread them around to several people which drains my ammo very fast. Second, my heals require me to keep ahead of the damage so by splitting them I run the risk of the tank taking some spike damage and me not being able to keep up. Third but most common, if I am healing everyone and their brother, my aggro goes off the charts so now I am having to watch my own health as well as the rest of the ones fighting over aggro.

It is much better to have one person tanking. Maybe have an offtank clear up the weaks but not need heals or sparingly healed. I have never had any group fight over roles though. Usually I ask who is going to be the tank and if we are lucky to have more than one, they usually decide among themselves before we start.
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Valorak's Avatar


Valorak
01.09.2012 , 09:56 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Fardreamer View Post
DPS don't have taunts in this game.
The Assassin has 3 specs - only one of them is for tanking

As has been said, the problem here is the lack of communication. Why didn't you discuss it in party chat first? Or at the very least let people know what you're doing. He clearly didn't know why you were doing it, but instead of replying to his comment you laughed snidely to yourself and carried on doing your own thing. I'm not saying it wasn't helpful, but you were just as rude as the Assassin was.

And for the record, Assassins are quite squishy at lower levels - especially if they don't keep up Dark Ward as often as possible since it's their only CD until level 26.

Majestic_Jazz's Avatar


Majestic_Jazz
01.09.2012 , 10:44 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Valorak View Post
The Assassin has 3 specs - only one of them is for tanking

As has been said, the problem here is the lack of communication. Why didn't you discuss it in party chat first? Or at the very least let people know what you're doing. He clearly didn't know why you were doing it, but instead of replying to his comment you laughed snidely to yourself and carried on doing your own thing. I'm not saying it wasn't helpful, but you were just as rude as the Assassin was.

And for the record, Assassins are quite squishy at lower levels - especially if they don't keep up Dark Ward as often as possible since it's their only CD until level 26.
How was I rude? I told me to take over, so I took over.

And the funny thing is, I wasn't the only one that noticed is "immaturity" in the whole situation. When the Heroic was over and we were all doing our "Thanks for the group" comments, the person doing the main DPS sent me as whisper telling me to not worry about anything and that T'Soni was just being an ***.

It was a lot of BS this person was putting out! He even gave the main DPS a hard time because he accidently broke CC in one fight!



Quote: Originally Posted by Fardreamer View Post
DPS don't have taunts in this game.

And to answer the OP... this level 20 assassin is too used to playing WoW where there's only 1 tank in a small group. He needs to adjust, not you.

The whole mentality that "OMG EVERY MOB MUST BE HITTING ME" is outdated. Tanking the non-strong adds is not required. In a group of 2 golds and 1 grey, the tank shouldn't even bother tanking the grey. Let the DPS nuke it down, and just hold aggro on the two golds.
Thank you!

Mind you, I never played WoW so I do not know the culture of that game or MMOs for that matter. Hence why I created this thread to see if what happened is something normal or just something that rarely happens.
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freakuancy's Avatar


freakuancy
01.09.2012 , 10:47 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Majestic_Jazz View Post
A few days ago I formed a group of 4 to run a Heroic on Balmorra [Empire]. Once all 4 people came together, I asked who has any healing abilities and someone answered yes. So that was great because no matter who else we have, as long as we have a healer we should be fine. So because I was a level 18 Juggernaut at the time, I said that I would be the Tank. No less than 10 seconds after that, a level 20 Assassin abruptly said that he should be the Tank. He never explained why, but just took it upon himself to Tank. Maybe because he was a level 20 Assassin and I was a level 18 Juggernaut and he assumed that because he is 2 levels above me, that makes me an inferior tank.

Anways, onto the Heroic, He would start every fight by putting someone in CC and then we all attack the same enemy. He would run around hitting every enemy in the mob trying to draw all of their aggro [minus the one that he has in CC]. So at any given moment, there are like 4 enemies all attacking this person. I saw how his health keeps getting low and how the Healer [who btw wasn't spec'd as a healer but rather as a DPS but had one or two healing ablities] was struggling to keep this guy alive. So considering how I have a taunt, I decided to help this guy out and out of a mob of 4-5 people, I would taunt about 2 of them just to take some of the threat off of him. I mean, technically, I am a tank so I didn't see any wrong in "sharing" with him. He draws about 2 people and I draw about 2 people and because we evened out the threat, our health is always nearly 80% full so the "healer" could use his many DPS attacks on the enemies to get through the mob quicker instead of trying to heal this "superman" Assassin who is always a second or two away from dying before I take some of the threat off of him by taunting. Again, mind you, that our healer was really a Sith Sorceror who was spec'd in the DPS tree, not healing tree, so his healing was VERY minimal so no need to put all the strain on him.

ANYWAYS, about 70% through the Heroic the Assassin mentions in the party chat [he could have just whispered at me] that "Because I want to use taunt, how about I go ahead and tank." I laughed when I heard that and just continued on.

Why would he say something like that? Was this person really upset because I used taunt to HELP HIM out when he was in situations where he was about to be whipped? Again, we really didn't have a true healer so him taking on 5 elites was just stupid, might as well split it up which worked out just fine but apparently, he didn't like that and like a 6 year old kid who is frustrated, he just told me out right that I tank. So for the rest of the heroic, I was drawing 5 guys and the ironic thing was unlike him whos health would constantly drop to around 10% before I bailed him out, my health with 5 guys attacking me NEVER went below 60%

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Sorry for the wall of text but this is my first MMO. I plan on being a Tank with my Juggernaut in end game content and when I play my Jedi Consular, I plan on being a Healer in end game content. I just want to know if this is something that I should expect to see a lot, people fighting over WHO is the main Tank or WHO is the main healer and what not? Personally, it is just a game and if I am reduced to a off Tank or off healer, then I am fine, as long as we as a group whether it be Heroic, Flashpoint, or Operation accomplish our goals. However based on what I previously experienced, people get really up tight about not wanting anyone to do their job and such.

Is this normal?

I'll be honest, I would have kicked you.

You do not taunt off the tank. Period. If the healer wasn't heal spec'd he shouldn't have been healing a Heroic.

You can split tanking duties up to carry a bad healer, but this needs to be communicated clearly.
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