The Expertise stat has to go...

The reason raid gear does not equal pvp gear is because players ARE actually meant to get better at what they do and use teamwork (it is an MMORPG, anyway) to get the best rewards. If PvPers grinded through battlezones to get raid equivalent gear and jumped into a raid knowing nothing about PvE, they'd be turned around back to what they know best, PVP. The same goes for PvE players.

The stat makes a player choose between PvP and PvE and hardcore players may choose both, but you can't ignore the fact that PvP and PvE have very different playstyles.

This is the single and only reason why people really want a PVP stat in any MMO. It's a crutch. I don't need a PVP stat and hate knowing that most of my competition will be a three shot kill because of it.

No they don't.
OH and the ones that did, had rapidly dying PVP aspects, Rift, WoW, Aion, the list goes on.

*WOOOOOOSH*, that's the point going over your head.

IF PVP gear and PVE gear were exactly the same, but the PVE gear had a special PVE stat which boosted damage and resilience in Flashpoints/Operations only, then you would beat them with your superior PVP skills because you're a PVPer and not a PVEer coming to play with the big boys.

A PVP stat is a crutch for bad PVPers who THINK they are hardcore PVPers.

I find it comical when so called PVPers complain that "i r don't want teh pvers beating me in pvp". If the PVP and PVE gear are identical, bar a PVE sat that works in PVE raids only, then you're winning with skill and team play, THAT'S what PVP is meant to be about.

The sad thing is 40 some odd pages (that I'm not reading all of) and I still haven't seen the actual answer for PvP stats.

It's because players are going to *********** two shot each other, and if you remotely think that's anything near skill based you're sorely mistaken, and probably pretty bad at PvP as it is, that's why it was added in WoW after vanilla when they moved towards a more competitive PvP system. (Also, saw someone say the PvP in wow is "dying" yeah, nah, but you can keep thinking that).

Actually, the very fact that 99% of you don't even realize this more or less confirms how bad you are. That's why any game worth it's salt HAS a PvP stat to reduce damage and allow for actual skill based opportunities to happen.

Could they just make each ability have a secondary damage amount for PvP? Sure. However that's a lot more work than just adding a PvP stat, and the worst part is it seems the dominant "argument" (if you can call it that) is that the PvP stat somehow increases a players entry barrier into PvP. Guess what, if some kid comes in a fresh 50 in his ****** gear he's going to get wrecked regardless. Either way, that person has a gear barrier they have to get past.

And guess what? Coming in PvE gear, you're going to see wasted item stats on PvE only stats that are just being wasted in PvP regardless.

Also, the amount of misinformation about WoW in here is staggering, I understand it's the "hip" thing to do to knock on a superior game to make yourself feel better about playing this one, but at least get your facts straight kids.

I play both, deal with it.

Stop crying, farm your gear like everyone else, and play the damn game. Stop crying about getting wrecked because someone put more time into an aspect of the game and has stuff to show for it.

Blizzard confirmed that new PVP uptake is very slow which leaves only the current players, same happened in Rift only Rift suffered more because it was newer with a smaller user base. So yeah you keep on thinking what you're thinking.

er, what?

I fail to see how that correlates to "dying". A game with a huge already established player base is seeing less new players in PvP? No way!? The game is still avidly played competitively in tournaments and such. The PvP is not "dying". It takes all of three or four days to farm a full set. And that's not hardcore playing either. If a player can't farm a set of gear that easy to get they're not going anywhere in PvE either, sorry. The biggest "barrier" would be them actually learning skill based things such as proper positioning in arena, and not tunneling targets like idiots, proper CC chains, surviving, LoSing, etc etc.



People don't know the retardedly obvious reason for PvP stats, which means they have a very bad grasp of game mechanics in general. This equates to being bad.

Yeah this is pretty much the only thing I care about. I can work with any system so long as I don't end up just fighting the same few teams over and over. Some people really don't seem to understand how important it is to encourage new players to PvP rather than discourage them.

The number of teams registered decreased disproportionately to the general population decrease.

Funny thing to mention, considering tournament servers gave everyone the same gear.

That's a good point, but if it's so trivial then why bother having it?

There are good players, there are bad players, but there are definitely players that are simply hindered by math. Don't flatter yourself.

I think the only "retardedly obvious" reason is because WoW and Rift did it. SWTOR didn't start out with 1 year of 5% of the population doing PvE raiding that gave them the best items in the game for PvP. They had a clean slate that didn't need to compensate for this.

Stagnation. New players are the life blood of PVP.

Needing a PVP stat that means I can 3 shot someone during a stun because I have PVP gear and they don't, equates to being bad. When PVP and PVE gear have exactly the same stats then skill and team work, you know those things that are meant to make a PVP player better than a PVE player, is what makes you good.

What you're describing is a crutch to prop up bad PVP players so they can't (literally can't) be beaten by a new player because modern PVP players like you think "skill" equals amount of timed grinded.

You need to justify your crutch stat, I don't. I'd throw off my PVP gear and fight on an even foot tomorrow if Bioware woke up to that.

I was actually referring to third party actual tournaments, not blizzards PvP tournament realms, however I have no issue with people having the gear, I haven't said anything to that effect once short of stop crying about it and just farm it. The argument of this entire thread is about removing expertise, expertise is a needed stat, because, again, people are going to two shot each other, and there's very little skill in who crits first.


Blizzard is putting in some passive resil in their next expansion, there will still be PvP gear but the entry barrier gear wise will be lower, again, which is fine. The argument of this thread, is AGAIN, removing the PvP stat that makes it not a **** show.


I have no idea what you're getting at here, people can't figure out how to spend marks on gear? Anyways, onto something not retarded...


No, but they have the biggest MMO ever seen on the market as a direct competitor and they know what works and what doesn't work. And unfortunately they're failing at a lot of things not taking a lot of what does work well. But that's an entirely different thread.

The sad part is that you apparently don't even know what the stat you're arguing about does. Damage reduction. Look into that, as said MULTIPLE times, people would run around two shotting each other without some type of player specific damage reduction, which would only get worse with time as more PvE gear comes out furthering peoples damage output making for an even worse game experience.

The only thing that needs to change is that the damage buff and the healing buff need to be removed and allow for just damage mitigation, possibly armor pen in place of the damage to compensate for tanks benefiting from it more than any other class vs melees. As it is, it's probably in it's current state and will probably be adjusted down the road when they get around to not being lazy. But the stat needs to stay.

The bottom line is that end game PvE gear is almost always superior to end game PvP gear. Expertise covers this disparity in gear by preventing those that grind PvE like crazy from coming into a WZ and dominating people. Expertise is there for people who like to PvP, if you don't like expertise then don't PvP.