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Story-based themepark MMO can only fail

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Story-based themepark MMO can only fail

Hautaaja's Avatar


Hautaaja
01.09.2012 , 05:10 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Harower View Post
Honestly... only thing that will save it is what they have now is nothing more then a bridge to the real MMO located in a just found galaxy with open worlds and a neutral city.

I am not even remotely kidding to say the 150 odd million they spent making this be nothing more then a levelling gateway. Because lets be honest, thats all it is.
I agree.. With the budget they had.. They should've strived to innovate. It's almost enough to make me laugh at how much they supposedly spent on this game and THIS is what they ended up with. I am fairly certain that Titan will not be a WoW-formula game and then the devs trying to copy WoW now and in the near future will curse the day they applied for their job..

a_Stalker's Avatar


a_Stalker
01.09.2012 , 05:17 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by kravechocolate View Post
It fails on a fundamental level because meaningful story cannot be generated by developers faster than users consume it.

What goes into a good story? Plot. Memorable characters. Conflict. Change. Interesting environments. Realistic dialogue. I shudder to think of the army of people that it took to give us such 8 wonderful, moving class stories in SWTOR.

1-49 had all this. I loved it, every minute of it.

Level 50 has none of this. My companions won't interject dialogue anymore. My character doesn't grow anymore. When I log in these days, I wonder, "Why am I doing this?" And I don't want that answer to be, "because the best-in-slot gear is this way". That is the losing answer, because of this other game on the market that will provide more than the good people at Bioware ever can in that particular arena.

Your executive and design meetings should turn its efforts on turning SWTOR into a sandbox game. Let players write their own stories. You've shown me where my character comes from -- now give me the tools to play out the rest of his career.

And for heaven sakes, don't ask me to roll an alt. Your mission worked, Bioware. Your story connected me with my character. I made the choices that defined him. I want to play him, not some new random person who happens to share a last name. Don't make me turn him into some mindless raider or pvp commendation grinder.

Sun Tzu wrote, "You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended." Raiding bosses, dungeon finder, daily quests, commendation vendors, and all that jazz -- those are the enemy's heavily defended bastions. I beg you Bioware. Do not waste your resources assaulting those positions. You cannot hope to win.
You are asking for something different. What would that be? SWTOR is not an old style MMO. SWG was. You could craft weapons and armour and their stats would depend on the crafter and his skill! You would scour the planets for rare resources. You would build your own home and town with other players. There was pretty much nothing you could achieve solo.

Modern MMOs are not like that. Solo is paramount in these games. SWTOR is not breaking away from this pattern. It is not possible to change it now. Perhaps they can provide dynamic events in some major overhaul of the game, but GW2 will be out there, it has better world (more MMO, 3D instead of 2D) and is F2P.

SWTOR as it stands can only succeed as a perfect copy of WOW, which unfortunately it is not...

Spymaster's Avatar


Spymaster
01.09.2012 , 05:23 AM | #93
Just because it's not story based past level 50 doens't mean it will fail. It's just not story based anymore. What MMO is story based at the end game?

It's more story based than any other MMO ever while leveling. That's a good thing. Just because it's impossible to continue bringing new story constantly doesn't mean you can't have fun doing non story based elements while you wait.

Or roll an alt of course.

Raurth's Avatar


Raurth
01.09.2012 , 05:26 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Spymaster View Post
Just becuase it's not story based past level 50 doens't mean it will fail. It's just not story based anymore. What MMO is story based at the end game?

It's more story based than any otehr MMO ever while leveling. That's a good thing. Just becuase it's impossible to continue bringing new story constantly doesn't mean you can't have fun doing non story based elements while you wait.

Or roll an alt of course.
The problem with this is the Endgame is terribly broken.

My companions are now pointless except as credit farmers. They don't talk to me, there's no quests left, they're even being banished from Ilum soon so I can't use them in PvP.

There's no story left, the only quests in my log are Dailies and Weeklies.

And no, I will not, personally, pay 15quid a month to level an alt through the same zones, same quests.

Spymaster's Avatar


Spymaster
01.09.2012 , 05:28 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Raurth View Post
The problem with this is the Endgame is terribly broken.

My companions are now pointless except as credit farmers. They don't talk to me, there's no quests left, they're even being banished from Ilum soon so I can't use them in PvP.

There's no story left, the only quests in my log are Dailies and Weeklies.

And no, I will not, personally, pay 15quid a month to level an alt through the same zones, same quests.
On this I agree. The game does need major work at the end game. I just it's not a rehash of the WoW style raiding game.

Sturmlied's Avatar


Sturmlied
01.09.2012 , 05:39 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Spymaster View Post
Just because it's not story based past level 50 doens't mean it will fail. It's just not story based anymore. What MMO is story based at the end game?

It's more story based than any other MMO ever while leveling. That's a good thing. Just because it's impossible to continue bringing new story constantly doesn't mean you can't have fun doing non story based elements while you wait.

Or roll an alt of course.
You also mentioned that end game is broken and that is the main issue I have.

The need to deliver end game content that can compete with wow.

It does not matter if you hate or like wow. What they did right is to deliver a great variety of high level content that is more or less fun, easily accessible, has different degrees of time need to be rewarded.

- You can do 1-2h of dailys and get a reward quickly... but not to quickly... this way it stretches out the content
- You can raid with your guild or raid group... more time consuming but better rewards and less frustration factor
- you can raid via LFR... takes less time but less reward and possibly higher frustration
- you can run heroics... quick and easy
- Faction grind... time consuming, imho high frustration, little reward
- Pet collection... pure vanity factor
- Achievement's... very time consuming... no true reward

Not everyone likes all of these options but the options are there and they keep people busy and entertained enough to keep the subscription running.

TOR is seriously lacking in ALL options and that COULD hit them hard.

Also... why should I keep playing a game that only offers the same, just less polished as the game I played for years and that I know and I am comfy with and that offers more options?

Well I know the answer for myself but Bioware needs to answer it for all the other players that don't have the answer yet.

a_Stalker's Avatar


a_Stalker
01.09.2012 , 05:41 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Hautaaja View Post
I agree.. With the budget they had.. They should've strived to innovate. It's almost enough to make me laugh at how much they supposedly spent on this game and THIS is what they ended up with. I am fairly certain that Titan will not be a WoW-formula game and then the devs trying to copy WoW now and in the near future will curse the day they applied for their job..
Precisely. Innovate, break the mould, be brave. Even if you have bugs, at least you are offering a unique experience. OR make a decent WOW clone not a half-baked job which is what SWTOR is now.

TheTurniipKing's Avatar


TheTurniipKing
01.09.2012 , 05:47 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfeisberg View Post
I played KOTOR three times, and KOTOR 2 nine times, I'm sure I can play this game a dozen times playing different characters for the next couple of years with out them even adding in new content.
Conversly, I finished both games once, and never went back. The story was told, I didn't need to see the outcomes of the other choices because I'd seen the outcomes of the choices I'd wanted to make.

Not everyone plays RPG's with completionist zeal.

Sturmlied's Avatar


Sturmlied
01.09.2012 , 05:49 AM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by a_Stalker View Post
Precisely. Innovate, break the mould, be brave. Even if you have bugs, at least you are offering a unique experience. OR make a decent WOW clone not a half-baked job which is what SWTOR is now.
I have to agree with that. Why is Blizzard the only company that brings innovation into mmos?

You (and I) may not like the innovation they bring into WOW but they try. The LFR / LFD tool is pretty innovative and it has it's advantages, the new talent system for MOP is a bold step.... I do not like it but it's something new.

But what the industry needs is real innovation from different companies!

TheTurniipKing's Avatar


TheTurniipKing
01.09.2012 , 05:49 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by a_Stalker View Post
You are asking for something different. What would that be? SWTOR is not an old style MMO. SWG was. You could craft weapons and armour and their stats would depend on the crafter and his skill! You would scour the planets for rare resources. You would build your own home and town with other players. There was pretty much nothing you could achieve solo.

Modern MMOs are not like that. Solo is paramount in these games. SWTOR is not breaking away from this pattern. It is not possible to change it now. Perhaps they can provide dynamic events in some major overhaul of the game, but GW2 will be out there, it has better world (more MMO, 3D instead of 2D) and is F2P.

SWTOR as it stands can only succeed as a perfect copy of WOW, which unfortunately it is not...
I think they first thing they need to do is drop levels entirely. It's nothing more than an arbitrary restriction that prevents you from having fun.

You can't use this gun because you're not high enough level. You're too high level to play with your friends because you'd breeze right through their quests. You can't move quickly because you've not punched enough giant bugs yet.