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Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

Lethality's Avatar


Lethality
01.08.2012 , 04:15 PM | #721
Quote: Originally Posted by Sparckus View Post
I didn't say it was a good idea, I said I didn't care. Although I would point out that assumes that legacy levels do not grant in game stat or skill advantages.

Your very selective with the posts your answering to.

Care to reply to this post?
Not sure what there is to reply to there.

Stat bonuses for people who don't switch specs isn't that far fetched, and its not excluding anyone. No one is forcing you not to switch specs to take advantage of the bonus, just like no one is forcing you to wear gear. Only the game design constructs force you to do things like that, and if it's good design, it's a good thing.
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RAMunch's Avatar


RAMunch
01.08.2012 , 04:16 PM | #722
Quote: Originally Posted by quazzi View Post
Sooo flexibility in character spec'ing.... i.e. dualspec....... thanks

flexibility in character specing when referring to a group is not dualspec...dual spec is the exact opposit of flexibility as it enforces just having 2 flavor of them month pure specs (dps/healer, tank/dps, etc).

Flexibility in specing means content designed that a group of hybrid specs covering all of thepoints (can't have 4 dps/tanks) should be able to do content.

Sparckus's Avatar


Sparckus
01.08.2012 , 04:17 PM | #723
Quote: Originally Posted by Lethality View Post
Not sure what there is to reply to there.

Stat bonuses for people who don't switch specs isn't that far fetched, and its not excluding anyone. No one is forcing you not to switch specs to take advantage of the bonus, just like no one is forcing you to wear gear. Only the game design constructs force you to do things like that, and if it's good design, it's a good thing.
What part of unfair advantage due to time spent do you not understand?

If that were implemented, groups would demand it like they do in other games with min/max and addons.

Kalanur's Avatar


Kalanur
01.08.2012 , 04:17 PM | #724
Not having Dual Spec is horrible as lvl50 Tank. It's like every guild can only have 1 tank for everything including HM FPs, Raids and PvP. If there is a second tank in the guild he needs to respecc as DD for every raid and back to Tank after the raid so he can do HM FPs.
Rerolling a 2nd char? Reaching lvl 50 easy but to equip 1 Char for Raids, Flashpoints and PvP and then another one for Flashpoints and PvP is just not the right way.

It wouldn't be a problem if there weren't this crazy raid encounters. Every stupid encounter needs only one Tank. But not enough, if you have a 2nd tank in the raid you will get problems with the Enrage Timers because he does not do the same damage as with a DD spec.

Solotion 1) Make 2 or 3 Chars for everything. Not fine for people who have not much time and also stupid for those who want to max his char, because you need to max 2 or 3.

Solution 2) Respec every time. But with 2 Raids a Week it's 4 times respec a week. Try to get that money back if you don't have the right crewskills or not enough time to grind the credits every day.

Solution 3) Dual Spec. Whats so wrong about it? People could go as DMG into Raids and Tanking for Flashpoints. Same for Healers.

It's a real issue for Guilds, because every Guild only needs one tank... no wait.. MUST have only one tank. Fine for Raiding but try to make flashpoints if you only have one tank and this tank can only make a flashpoint once per day because of lockout. If you have more than one tank, only one of them can join the raid or you will miss dmg and enrage kills you. Yay fun.

DaxRendar's Avatar


DaxRendar
01.08.2012 , 04:22 PM | #725
Quote: Originally Posted by RAMunch View Post
As someone else said, the whole point of dual spec is to make up for the fact that there aren't enough tanks and healers in the game. Since I usually play tanks and Healers getting a group is easy since my role is a commodity, so the ability for someone to not make me a commodity directly impacts my % chance to get a group, which directly impacts my gameplay. This is pure numbers, no feelings or opinions.
And in the following example, what do you think is the better overall experience for everyone playing the game:

10 Tanks
150 DPS
50 Healers

No Dual Spec so now you and 39 other Healers and 130 DPS are sitting around ************ about the lack of Tanks and how come nobody has Cr 100,000 to throw away on a respec

(and the above breakout is much closer to actual Class Distribution in these kinds of games - most people just don't want to deal with Tanking)

In a Dual Spec world, the above situation is improved though still not completely resolved (WoW still suffers from a shortage of Tanks even with Dual Spec - hopefully SWTOR will be different but I'm not holding my breath)

Quote: Originally Posted by RAMunch View Post
Now i'm only talking about PvE. To me this is a PvE game with PvP bolted onto it as a time killer.

If someone wants dual specs for PvE/PvP specs I think that is a different discussion as it could be implemented to force that. E.G. have two specs, when entering the warzone it forces 1 spec, when outside a warzone it forces another. This now no longer affects anyone's ability to get a group, and they can play each half of this game as they want.
Thank you for at least acknowledging there are other situations and possible solutions

Crazyflames's Avatar


Crazyflames
01.08.2012 , 04:23 PM | #726
@ Kalanur
If your respecing specificly for a raid encounter for your Guild because they need you to, you should get credits from your guild to respec. You are not forced to respec.
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DaxRendar's Avatar


DaxRendar
01.08.2012 , 04:30 PM | #727
Quote: Originally Posted by Crazyflames View Post
@ Kalanur
If your respecing specificly for a raid encounter for your Guild because they need you to, you should get credits from your guild to respec. You are not forced to respec.
His Guild doesn't need him to switch...

HE needs to switch if he wants to go

Hearing that they designed Operations around 1 Tank is just horrible news - I mean truly absolutely horrible. It will create an even greater Tank shortage in this game

RAMunch's Avatar


RAMunch
01.08.2012 , 04:31 PM | #728
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalanur View Post
Not having Dual Spec is horrible as lvl50 Tank. It's like every guild can only have 1 tank for everything including HM FPs, Raids and PvP. If there is a second tank in the guild he needs to respecc as DD for every raid and back to Tank after the raid so he can do HM FPs.
Rerolling a 2nd char? Reaching lvl 50 easy but to equip 1 Char for Raids, Flashpoints and PvP and then another one for Flashpoints and PvP is just not the right way.

It wouldn't be a problem if there weren't this crazy raid encounters. Every stupid encounter needs only one Tank. But not enough, if you have a 2nd tank in the raid you will get problems with the Enrage Timers because he does not do the same damage as with a DD spec.

Solotion 1) Make 2 or 3 Chars for everything. Not fine for people who have not much time and also stupid for those who want to max his char, because you need to max 2 or 3.

Solution 2) Respec every time. But with 2 Raids a Week it's 4 times respec a week. Try to get that money back if you don't have the right crewskills or not enough time to grind the credits every day.

Solution 3) Dual Spec. Whats so wrong about it? People could go as DMG into Raids and Tanking for Flashpoints. Same for Healers.

It's a real issue for Guilds, because every Guild only needs one tank... no wait.. MUST have only one tank. Fine for Raiding but try to make flashpoints if you only have one tank and this tank can only make a flashpoint once per day because of lockout. If you have more than one tank, only one of them can join the raid or you will miss dmg and enrage kills you. Yay fun.
If this is the reason you are for dual spec:

"It wouldn't be a problem if there weren't this crazy raid encounters. Every stupid encounter needs only one Tank. "

The problem isn't with the specing, the problem is with the content.

To me solving the problem by implementing dual speccing is like buying a case of oil to carry in the trunk of your car if it's leaking oil, rather than fixing the leak. Sure it "hides" the problem, but it doesn't solve it.


We should stop demanding development changes to help hide symptoms, instead we should demand development changes to fix the problem.

DaxRendar's Avatar


DaxRendar
01.08.2012 , 04:37 PM | #729
Quote: Originally Posted by RAMunch View Post
We should stop demanding development changes to help hide symptoms, instead we should demand development changes to fix the problem.
Sadly, it is the way the game is designed.

Honestly, which do you think is easier/more likely to happen?
-BW Redesigns every Normal/Hard/Nightmare Mode encounter in almost every Flashpoint (Normal Esseles/Black Talon don't require dedicated Tanks/Healers... as it is impossible to be one at lvl 10 ) to support more Hybrid builds (in a game designed around "Holy Trinity" gameplay)
-BW adds Dual Spec

You may not like the choice, but it should be pretty obvious to you what the choice will be

RAMunch's Avatar


RAMunch
01.08.2012 , 04:41 PM | #730
Quote: Originally Posted by DaxRendar View Post
And in the following example, what do you think is the better overall experience for everyone playing the game:

10 Tanks
150 DPS
50 Healers

No Dual Spec so now you and 39 other Healers and 130 DPS are sitting around ************ about the lack of Tanks and how come nobody has Cr 100,000 to throw away on a respec

(and the above breakout is much closer to actual Class Distribution in these kinds of games - most people just don't want to deal with Tanking)

In a Dual Spec world, the above situation is improved though still not completely resolved (WoW still suffers from a shortage of Tanks even with Dual Spec - hopefully SWTOR will be different but I'm not holding my breath)



Thank you for at least acknowledging there are other situations and possible solutions
Agreed that distribution would make it more difficult and would have lots standing around.
Though I think if BW took a hard stance that they weren't going to cater to the players on this issue you'd see the distribution even out

1 .Either because people would respec because they'd get tired of standing around and then stay in the new spec.

2 .Or they leave, which again would bring the distribution in line, as the people getting constant groups wouldn't be leaving out of rage.


I just don't feel that it is fair that someone that just flipped into my spec gets an equal shot at a group spot as I do if I've always been that spec, which directly impacts my gameplay even disregarding feelings.

I'm all for other possible solutions, I acknowledge there is a problem (actually problems) I just stand firm that dual speccing is one of the worst possible solutions. If dual spec is to be implemented then there should be an advantage to not using it since using it comes with this own advantage. Maybe like Dax said earlier in the thread that if i stay in a specific spec my abilities tied to that spec get better, this at least gives an equal bonus to those that choose not to use the system as those that do.