Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Mace Wimdu and Darth Sidious


ozirizo's Avatar


ozirizo
01.07.2012 , 09:59 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Smithie View Post
To answer the topic:
I dont believe that Windu was stronger than Sidious. Maybe Windu was better at Lightsaber combat, only second to (some even say on par with) Yoda. Sidious is obviously much stronger with the force.
To quote Yoda:

Quote:
"No...no...no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."
Dark side powers seem to be more efective in a combat because of their destructive nature, but they're certainly not stronger.

Was Palpatine stronger than Windu or Yoda? I doubt it.
Clio Martell / Jedi Sage / Eros Martell / Commando / Ahto City

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.07.2012 , 10:09 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ozirizo View Post
To quote Yoda:



Dark side powers seem to be more efective in a combat because of their destructive nature, but they're certainly not stronger.

Was Palpatine stronger than Windu or Yoda? I doubt it.
Yes. Leland Chee and the novel makes it clear that he was.

This is Leland Chee's say on the matter.

"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."

From the novel.

"There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.

It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too.

It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to the great Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneath the Podium raised it on its tower of durasteel a hundred meters and more, so that it became a laserpoint of battle flaring at the focus of the vast emptiness of the Senate Arena; it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new Emperor.

It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.

It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.

In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.

Finally, he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

just--

didn't--

have it.

He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.

He had lost before he was born.

The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.

They had become new.

While the Jedi--

The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.

The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter the light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when the war itself had become the dark's own weapon?

He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him. "

xeviltoasterx's Avatar


xeviltoasterx
01.07.2012 , 11:06 AM | #23
^ well that pretty much sums it all up, as much as it pains me to know that Yoda legitimately lost.

It also pretty much solidifies that Yoda was stronger than Mace, or any Jedi, by the way it describes him, at least in the Force. But was he a better duelist?

And speaking of being wise, I think it's epic that Mace tapped into the dark side while fighting Palpatine- he knew what was at stake, and that holding back his emotions or skills was of little importance at that time. He was even willing to kill Palpatine at the end, clearly against the Jedi way, and he was right- he WAS too dangerous to be left alive. Jedi code or not.

Fozziwig's Avatar


Fozziwig
01.07.2012 , 11:25 AM | #24
I would love to see where Lucas said Windu legitimately won, because the way it looked in movie, it seemed as though Sidious wasn't as helpless as he made Anakin think. He's so sneaky he destroyed the Republic from within, so it makes sense that he could set up this scene with Windu to convert Anakin, which I think is what he did.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.07.2012 , 11:41 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Fozziwig View Post
I would love to see where Lucas said Windu legitimately won, because the way it looked in movie, it seemed as though Sidious wasn't as helpless as he made Anakin think. He's so sneaky he destroyed the Republic from within, so it makes sense that he could set up this scene with Windu to convert Anakin, which I think is what he did.
Lucas stated that he genuinely wanted Mace to get the upper hand. When Sidious lost his lightsaber in the commentary he stated Mace won. If you watch his facial expressions vs his facial expressions against Yoda you can clearly see he wasn't happy where his fight with Windu was going. Now the novel sheds a bit more insight in that Windu was about to lose his grip on his saber from his force lightning.

It also states that Windu tapped further into Vaapad than ever before. Windu always held back when using his own style because of how dangerous channeling your own darkness is. He let up on it in that duel. Holding back he was able to occasionally fight Yoda to a draw. If he gave more into it and was able to draw Yoda before hand I think it's safe to say in that moment, in lightsaber combat, Windu was better.

Now when it came to the use of the force.. when Sidious was forced to rely on that. I believe it's safe to say that things would have went badly from there for Windu.

corithdestrin's Avatar


corithdestrin
01.07.2012 , 11:58 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
Lucas stated that he genuinely wanted Mace to get the upper hand. When Sidious lost his lightsaber in the commentary he stated Mace won. If you watch his facial expressions vs his facial expressions against Yoda you can clearly see he wasn't happy where his fight with Windu was going. Now the novel sheds a bit more insight in that Windu was about to lose his grip on his saber from his force lightning.

It also states that Windu tapped further into Vaapad than ever before. Windu always held back when using his own style because of how dangerous channeling your own darkness is. He let up on it in that duel. Holding back he was able to occasionally fight Yoda to a draw. If he gave more into it and was able to draw Yoda before hand I think it's safe to say in that moment, in lightsaber combat, Windu was better.

Now when it came to the use of the force.. when Sidious was forced to rely on that. I believe it's safe to say that things would have went badly from there for Windu.
well said. Everyone on this thread should read shatter point. Awsome novel by mattew Strover one of the best star wars books ever and mace is really shown in this novel to be very powerful.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.07.2012 , 12:10 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by corithdestrin View Post
well said. Everyone on this thread should read shatter point. Awsome novel by mattew Strover one of the best star wars books ever and mace is really shown in this novel to be very powerful.
Indeed. I think given a few more years. Windu would have become more powerful than Yoda. I think he was eventually going to become Yoda's successor (if you don't count Anakin.)

kzinkiller's Avatar


kzinkiller
01.07.2012 , 12:21 PM | #28
Palpatine lost on purpose and he could have killed Windu at any time.

Palpatine backed Windu down the hall and had the defenseless Windu with his arms to the side while the point of Palpatine's saber was right at Windu's chest.

hauk's Avatar


hauk
01.07.2012 , 04:20 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Smithie View Post
I advise some people watch the clip from Eps III - Windu Vs Sidious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w16CM7_zPEc
Mace was totally about to make a darkside choice until Darth V made his own darkside choice and stopped Mace's darkside choice.