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The Expertise stat has to go...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Expertise stat has to go...

blackadda's Avatar


blackadda
01.06.2012 , 01:55 PM | #261
brackets...coming soon

/thread

Redderic's Avatar


Redderic
01.06.2012 , 01:58 PM | #262
the whole idea behind getting gear from daily and weekly quests is so that those people who can not or do not sit and grind are still able to compete. it takes away from those heavy grinders but at the same time makes it fair to those who have work, kids or anything else going on in their lives.
expertise also distinguishes the difference between pvp gear and raid gear.
having a stat that does nothing for a raid fight wont help them in any aspect of the game except for fighting other players so i absolutely agree with having it.
think people.
use some common sense.
its really a good stat to have.
stop nerd raging because some level 50s killed you and go level so that they dont destroy you.
once you hit level 40 it is easy to go toe to toe with a level 50 even if they are in full champion gear because the differences in stats is not that big.
Name: Little'Red
Class: Infiltration Shadow O.o
Guild: Ascension
SERVER: PoTF

Daegil's Avatar


Daegil
01.06.2012 , 02:05 PM | #263
Quote: Originally Posted by Redderic View Post
the whole idea behind getting gear from daily and weekly quests is so that those people who can not or do not sit and grind are still able to compete. it takes away from those heavy grinders but at the same time makes it fair to those who have work, kids or anything else going on in their lives.
expertise also distinguishes the difference between pvp gear and raid gear.
having a stat that does nothing for a raid fight wont help them in any aspect of the game except for fighting other players so i absolutely agree with having it.
think people.
use some common sense.
its really a good stat to have.
stop nerd raging because some level 50s killed you and go level so that they dont destroy you.
once you hit level 40 it is easy to go toe to toe with a level 50 even if they are in full champion gear because the differences in stats is not that big.
So because I choose to focus my time mainly on PvP I should not be allowed to do PvE content with any extra time I have due to my gear? How nice.

Fox_McCloud's Avatar


Fox_McCloud
01.06.2012 , 02:06 PM | #264
Quote: Originally Posted by Hambunctious View Post
It's a stupid stat, and bad for the game.
If it wasn't for that stat, then raid gear would be required for the best pvp performance, and that is completely unacceptable.

SWImara's Avatar


SWImara
01.06.2012 , 02:09 PM | #265
Quote: Originally Posted by Kryptorchid View Post
How hard is it to realize I am not talking about a simple "remove Expertise from the game" fix. I have posted this several times in this thread, but you gave me the idea to consolidate this. The "complete" fix IMO would be the following.

1. Make "Universal Stats" (Aim, Endurance, Crit, Surge, etc., any stat that works in PvP and PvE is what I will call "universal") identical for the first Tier epic PvP and PvE equipment. This means:

2. Remove Expertise as a PvP stat and make it a PvE stat. Expertise would increase your Damage, Healing Done, and Defense by X% when you are in a Flashpoint or Operation. Now apply the *new* Expertise to the first top-tier PvE gear.

This gives you the following for the top-tier PvP and PvE gear:

Tier 1 PvP Chest:
+100 Aim
+100 Endurance
+75 Crit
+25 Surge

Tier 1 PvE Chest:
+100 Aim
+100 Endurance
+75 Crit
+25 Surge
+50 *new* Expertise

Now players in the best PvP gear and the best PvE gear will have the same "Universal Stats" and thus no statistical advantage in PvP.

For the next tier, "universal stats" remain unchanged; however, the PvP gear has a new aesthetic design and the PvE gear increases its *new* Expertise stat. This means come tier 2, a tier 1 PvE/PvP geared player will have the same stats as a Tier2 PvP/PvE geared player in PvP, but PvE gear can still increase in power for Flashpoints and Operations, keeping the same exact progression model that is currently in the game for PvE.
So... I don't think people here are really arguing with you. Your idea is neat, but it is never going to happen so there is no reason to argue against it. Raid gear is not going to be given a "raid gear only stat" as Raiders would be outraged and it would essentially serve no purpose other than gating. Other games have tried using gear for gating that had no benefits save allowing you into the next tier, people hated it, it got removed.

The reason people are arguing against the removal of expertise gear is based in the type of game this is. In some sort of old school/traditional FFA PvP game it'd be fine for there to be no special advancement in PvP or for all gear to essentially be the same. This however is not that kind of game. SWTOR is a fairly standard loot/reward based game about rewarding individual achievements basically with new "leet gear". The expertise system makes it so that people are rewarded only during PvP for committing time only to PvP.

Is the system ideal? No. However its the best we are likely to get unless you join the dev team or they suddenly decide to completely rework the loot system in the game.

fest's Avatar


fest
01.06.2012 , 02:16 PM | #266
Quote: Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Come on is it really that hard.

Raid gear = best at PvE raids... In other words. Raid Stat.
Raid gear has a Raid stat that does the exact same thing Expertise does in reverse. Giving Damage and Defense bonuses Vs PvE mobs.

Gear Released for New Raids... has a counter version released with the New Warzone based on the same map as the new raid.

Stats are EQUAL 100% except the raid version has X amount of the PvE Stat... making it superior for Raids... and Equal for PvP. Problem fixed.

Then if that evil raid player ques up... and he manages too kill the poor PvP player it is 100% based on skill. If he comes in and gets stomped (Which should be expected anyway if hes playing against hardcore PvP players) so be it... no gear to blame... their tears are all the more sweeter.

There ya go problem solved. Raid gear is still MUCH better for people that enjoy raiding and high end PvP content. PvP gear has Zero Disadvantage. For those of us that would rather PvP all day.
I said without it coming down to a stat. Next?

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
01.06.2012 , 02:20 PM | #267
Quote: Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
If Bio had any vision... they would have done away with the idea of a PvP stat... and designed a PvE Stat. A way to make 30 30 30 stats on both gear... with PvE raid gear that adds 10% bonuses too PvE content. That would have been the fix.... PvP stats are the completely wrong way to go about it... No NPC is going to wine that that fully geared raid group is smacking em 10% harder.
Ironically, Mythic did just that- they made something called 'wards', which was a pve stat that made bosses hit you harder unless you had the tier gear from the previous raid dungeon.


It was perhaps the worst idea I've ever seen, and made already bad raids that much worse, as you literally couldn't even assist in fighting a raid boss that you weren't perfectly geared for, unless you were a healer... but even then, most bosses had one shot aoe that were invisible and demolished you if you weren't wearing the right wards.

TheOfficialGOAT's Avatar


TheOfficialGOAT
01.06.2012 , 02:30 PM | #268
This post is stupid, why would you get PVP gear if there is no bonus to it? Why else would PVP gear exist other than to give PVP bonuses? PVP isn't fair and shouldn't be fair, it's first come first sever in most situations. People grinded out PVP gear and deserve a bonus for that. In fact this gear is very easy to get so I don't see your problem here.

I don't understand why casual PVPer's think they know everything and everything should be casual. PVP isn't casual, you can do it casually but you also suffer the fact that you will do bad due to skill/gear disadvantages. If there was no bonus for the gear people wouldn't get it. It is not a supplement to PVE raid gear, it is its own set of gear that has different purpose.

It is so easy to get I don't know why you are complaining over this. Are you really trying to kill this game already? I mean seriously it is so messed up at the current time that the PVP crowd will likely quit after the first month. Now you are trying to slap them in the face again?

Edit:

If you really think this PVP boost given from the gear is a huge boost, you should try other games because honestly the boost given isn't that great. Sure it's a lot for this game but in general it's not.

Ogrezilla's Avatar


Ogrezilla
01.06.2012 , 02:37 PM | #269
Quote: Originally Posted by Fox_McCloud View Post
If it wasn't for that stat, then raid gear would be required for the best pvp performance, and that is completely unacceptable.
unless they change pvp gear to be on par with raid gear. Then people can actually enjoy the whole game with half the grind. Sadly, BW has no interest in cutting the grind in half. The problem is that there seem to be an awful lot of people who play for gear instead of for fun. At least MMO designers seem to think so. I got the full set in PvP before I cleared the full raid? Whatever, I still want to clear the raid. And I still want to PvP. And now I can go back and forth.

solidsheep's Avatar


solidsheep
01.06.2012 , 02:42 PM | #270
Quote: Originally Posted by Kryptorchid View Post
You do realize that is precisely what Expertise causes in the case of a level 50 with Expertise vs. a level 49.
But in a perfect world people leveling up should be fighting other people leveling up.