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Stealth has been made a liability.


GenericBadGuy's Avatar


GenericBadGuy
01.05.2012 , 01:35 PM | #1
If you do not play a stealth class or play one and wonder why you are randomly taken out of stealth often in group content - this is why: Certain enemies in the game have been given the ability to detect and unstealth stealth classes from a long distance away, putting them in combat at the same time. This is usually restricted to bosses but random enemies in the landscape will have this ability as well.

I do not have an issue with enemies being able to detect stealth, after all that is a design decision and it is up to you. I do however have an issue with this mechanic's current implementation.

As it is right now these enemies detect stealth from VERY far away. I can be stealthed and walking around then suddenly the big targeting lazer appears on my character and I honestly do not know where the enemy is they are so far away. In an area with many enemies who all have this ability (like the main questline area on Ilum) stealth is impossible. I will be detected immediately and have the entire zone aggro on me. That is clearly not going to work in the long run.

As a class that relies a lot on stealth-openers, it is very irritating that I am completely unable to use these on bosses. This is due to bosses detecting and unstealthing stealth classes while simultaneously putting them in combat from a long distance away even if they are not targeting the stealth class. You cannot stealth while in combat, so you have to beat the tank to the boss; yet currently this is impossible as you will be unstealthed before you get to him even if the tank hits him.

I also feel like my group is at risk simply becuase I am there. Like Luke on the shuttle to Endor I am "endangering the mission" becuase these enemies can see a stealth class from a mile away and will aggro when the group is perhaps not ready for them.

Please let me use stealth openers on bosses, please let me get into proper positions, and please take a look at this mechanic. I love my class and would like to use it to its fullest with my guild.
Chewie and I have gotten into pants more heavily guarded than this.

sheibeck's Avatar


sheibeck
01.05.2012 , 02:20 PM | #2
We saw this same issue with a jedi consular in our group running Hammer Station. He was in stealth mode and standing next to all of us and there was no aggro. Suddenly, his stealth broke and the mobs down the hall aggro and jump us. He never moved, just that stealth popped. This happened 2 more times before we figured out what it was and told him to not stealth. Then everything was fine, no aggro even standing in the same spot.
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SWTOR GUILD - Going Commando

Phalynn's Avatar


Phalynn
01.05.2012 , 02:22 PM | #3
all True. I'm having the same issue on my Operative. Like you said...the Jedi Champs on Illum can spot stealth from further away then they aggro you unstealthed....its rediculous.

Also, the the mobs in the Prison heroic on Corellia were popping my stealth from extreme distances...

And lastly....and I'm least worried about this...but another instance was the First Droid Boss on HM Black Talon. Tank was about 5 meters in front of me unstealthed obviously...and I was stealthed behind him. Boss pops my stealth and puts us all in combat.
I am everywhere, and I am nowhere
I am always everyone, but never anyone
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Excise's Avatar


Excise
01.05.2012 , 02:34 PM | #4
Also happens on Hoth with some of the Talz Strong mobs. Commandos, I think it is.

Crowbarx's Avatar


Crowbarx
01.05.2012 , 02:35 PM | #5
I totally understand the concerns you guys bring up, I play a dps operative for my guild, but this issue really isn't that bad. You have to make your group aware your class has a huge burst dps opening if you can start from stealth. The way we do this is I stand stealth in the back of the room well out of the range of the bosses ability to see through stealth which is about 30m from what I've noticed. Our tank then engages the boss first and then I run in, I am still stealthed and out of combat at this point where I can run safely behind the boss and start my dps rotation.

Also if you see that big target on you while you're stealthed you have about 5 seconds to pop out of stealth and nothing will aggro as long as you break stealth. The key is getting a good hang on the range each boss can see you from and staying out of that range until the tank pulls or you start the encounter.

I have completed all the raid content in the game with my guild so far and have had no issues starting on any of the bosses from stealth, including fights like the infernal council or ancient pylons in the eternity vault. So it can be done, you just can't be in position before the fight starts, this does two things though, allows the tank to establish aggro and for you to pop your relics at the start and get a huge burst damage at the start of a fight which makes up for the time lost running up to the boss.

Jurugar's Avatar


Jurugar
01.05.2012 , 02:55 PM | #6
The fact is, if you're in stealth you can actually aggro the boss earlier than other people out of stealth, even if you're standing at the same distance.

I could be 5 feet behind you and aggro the boss before you if I was in stealth.

Crowbarx's Avatar


Crowbarx
01.05.2012 , 03:02 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Jurugar View Post
The fact is, if you're in stealth you can actually aggro the boss earlier than other people out of stealth, even if you're standing at the same distance.

I could be 5 feet behind you and aggro the boss before you if I was in stealth.

Yes you do, this is why you have to stand farther back before combat in stealth, you have to be aprox. 15m away from your group if your group is 15m from the boss. If you do see the target for whatever reason you are too close so pop out of stealth, you won't aggro, run back farther and restealth and you should be fine.

GenericBadGuy's Avatar


GenericBadGuy
01.05.2012 , 03:59 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Crowbarx View Post
I totally understand the concerns you guys bring up, I play a dps operative for my guild, but this issue really isn't that bad. You have to make your group aware your class has a huge burst dps opening if you can start from stealth. The way we do this is I stand stealth in the back of the room well out of the range of the bosses ability to see through stealth which is about 30m from what I've noticed. Our tank then engages the boss first and then I run in, I am still stealthed and out of combat at this point where I can run safely behind the boss and start my dps rotation.

Also if you see that big target on you while you're stealthed you have about 5 seconds to pop out of stealth and nothing will aggro as long as you break stealth. The key is getting a good hang on the range each boss can see you from and staying out of that range until the tank pulls or you start the encounter.

I have completed all the raid content in the game with my guild so far and have had no issues starting on any of the bosses from stealth, including fights like the infernal council or ancient pylons in the eternity vault. So it can be done, you just can't be in position before the fight starts, this does two things though, allows the tank to establish aggro and for you to pop your relics at the start and get a huge burst damage at the start of a fight which makes up for the time lost running up to the boss.
I understand that there are workarounds as i use them myself, but I do not think it is intended or necessary for stealth classes to have to tiptoe around the content like this.
Chewie and I have gotten into pants more heavily guarded than this.

RoyalAlkesh's Avatar


RoyalAlkesh
01.05.2012 , 04:27 PM | #9
The problem for me isn't so much that bosses can put knock you out of stealth and put you in combat. That mechanic is fine as far as I'm concerned.

The problem is the exceedingly large range the mechanic has. I was running heroic battle for Ilum today, and the boss was detecting me in stealth before it was detecting my party members, who were standing literally right next to me. That's a serious problem, especially if, as has been pointed out, your class relies on a stealth opener.

This mechanic essentially forces you to delay your damage in the hopes of being able to run up from a far distance while slowed by stealth, just to get your opener. You just have to pray the boss doesn't have any aoe or target abilities, since I found out the hard way that most bosses can target you, even if you're in stealth, when the encounter begins. I think the mechanic should detect people, and should knock them out of stealth. However, I think the range should be toned down significantly. Maybe a compromise can be that the range is reduced, by the ability knocks you out of stealth faster than it does now (atm, it seems to take 8+ seconds to actually remove you from stealth).

Crowbarx's Avatar


Crowbarx
01.05.2012 , 04:38 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by RoyalAlkesh View Post
The problem for me isn't so much that bosses can put knock you out of stealth and put you in combat. That mechanic is fine as far as I'm concerned.

The problem is the exceedingly large range the mechanic has. I was running heroic battle for Ilum today, and the boss was detecting me in stealth before it was detecting my party members, who were standing literally right next to me. That's a serious problem, especially if, as has been pointed out, your class relies on a stealth opener.

This mechanic essentially forces you to delay your damage in the hopes of being able to run up from a far distance while slowed by stealth, just to get your opener. You just have to pray the boss doesn't have any aoe or target abilities, since I found out the hard way that most bosses can target you, even if you're in stealth, when the encounter begins. I think the mechanic should detect people, and should knock them out of stealth. However, I think the range should be toned down significantly. Maybe a compromise can be that the range is reduced, by the ability knocks you out of stealth faster than it does now (atm, it seems to take 8+ seconds to actually remove you from stealth).
I don't see a problem with this mechanic because it allows your tank to establish aggro without you pulling from your huge burst damage. With my current gear I'm opening with like 5-6K crits on all boss mobs in EV atm. There have been moments where I've been able to get close enough to do my stealth opening as the tank pulls and I almost always pull aggro off the tank from the huge burst.

So even though I take much longer to get in combat I don't really lose any dps from the huge burst capability my class has. We also have talents which greatly increase our speed while stealthed which really helps getting into combat faster from running up from the back of the room.