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!Big Concern!: Ranged vs. Melee DPS in FPs & Ops

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
!Big Concern!: Ranged vs. Melee DPS in FPs & Ops

Perlexia's Avatar


Perlexia
01.05.2012 , 08:24 AM | #1
I thought I'll bring this up here, since it has been really bothering me lately. Hopefully developers (Hello Georg!) will read this, and this will be addressed. In short:

Ranged DPS as of right now have massive advantages over Melee DPS in a number of encounters, especially in HM FPs and Ops, whereas the opposite is never the case. While this can be argued for other games too, I feel its excessive in this game, making some encounters considerably harder, i.e. when you have 2 melee DPS in the group, and giving incentive to raid leaders to just get range DPS.

1. Melee are much more subjected to AOE abilities on several encounters, while Ranged DPS can avoid it easily in many cases. Sure, many AOE abilities are avoidable for melee by having them run out or spread out, but that leads us to point 2:

2. Trying to avoid AOE abilities for melee DPS by running out causes their sustained DPS to drop off relatively to Ranged DPS.

Here are just 3 examples, I am sure there are many more.


Example 1:

Boarding Party HM Final boss

The Commander's missile puts melee DPS at a much greater disadvantage, due to the fact that they have to stand closer together and cant really spread out from each other to avoid the AE damage.

Example 2:

Khel Thrak (2nd boss Battle of Ilum)

Same thing as in example 1, with his shield probe ability. I am aware melee should avoid hitting him when he gets the buff, but ranged DPS dont really have to worry about ever taking that damage. Secondly, moving away from him when the adds spawn is another burden that Ranged DPS dont have to deal with, at all. This gives them an advantage on damage dealt as well.

Example 3:

Gharj (2nd Boss Eternity Vault)

His pounce ability is not that critical, but it still serves as an example of: Melee DPS have to eat dmg, while Ranged DPS do not. Because Ranged DPS do not have to run out, they have higher sustained DPS because of melee DPS travel time.

Example 4:

SOA (Final Boss Eternity Vault)

The very design of the fight (especially on middle & bottom platform) requires alot of running around and switching targets. Again, because of their longer travel time (even with current mobility abilties) gimp their DPS noticably. Additionally, the lightning balls are much more dangerous for melee DPS than for ranged DPS, due to the fact that they are forced to stand much closer together, while ranged can spread.


To alleviate this i can think of several solutions. I am aware that these bring along other balance issues in PVP. They are only suggestions, and there is more discussion required:

- Give melee dps higher DPS which should even out sustained DPS over a fight, because they cant DPS some bosses for the same duration than ranged can.
- Increase their mobility
- Give them some sort of AOE mitigation.

And the best solution: Encounter Design that has this issue in mind.

Tiriensoul's Avatar


Tiriensoul
01.05.2012 , 08:25 AM | #2
Play Jedi Sage and say that again....
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet,
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams

Perlexia's Avatar


Perlexia
01.05.2012 , 08:29 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiriensoul View Post
Play Jedi Sage and say that again....
Very constructive...

SinisterWarlock's Avatar


SinisterWarlock
01.05.2012 , 08:33 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Perlexia View Post
Very constructive...
95% of the forum posters will troll this thread or add nothing of worth, SWTOR forums, among the worst in history.

Githadys's Avatar


Githadys
01.05.2012 , 08:34 AM | #5
Same problem in wow, range has the advantage over melee, but changing things as you have suggested will effect pvp, so everything has to be took into account.
Master Githadys
"Trust in the Force"

Riddickcz's Avatar


Riddickcz
01.05.2012 , 08:36 AM | #6
Actually we were unable to kill some bosses because we had two melee dps and we had to run out everytime boss did some aoe ability..and simply we just hit Enrage at some point. on the other hand with ranged dps it would be piece of cake. So Yea...that sux.
The crazy is strong with this one.
http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-swtor/f744bd09b5be85fa.png

Mandrax's Avatar


Mandrax
01.05.2012 , 08:39 AM | #7
This issue is in every MMO of it's type. The answer is, if you don't feel you are good enough to move out of the fire and such, then maybe you should play a class more suited to your abilities.

I know it sounds harsh, but it is in fact the truth.

Also, in terms of group make up for bosses and such, it's best to be able to have some flexibility in your raid groups.
Space, is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space...

SWImara's Avatar


SWImara
01.05.2012 , 08:40 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by SinisterWarlock View Post
95% of the forum posters will troll this thread or add nothing of worth, SWTOR forums, among the worst in history.
I honestly think they're about on par with every other MMO on launch. When I browse during the work day I am often filled with disgust and think "this is a new low" then I remember every other mainstream forum on launch, this is about par for course and honestly cleaning up faster than most I think.

As far as the OP's point, I get the feeling he is actually wrong in SWTOR but there is no parsing system so neither of us have the numbers to back our opinions up. Melee DPS seems to hit plenty hard in this game, certainly in PvP and I imagine just as much in PvE. I often feel in just about every MMO I've played that melee is the underdog, I get that feeling less here than I have in most games.

Note: I am not advocating a parsing system, I do not particularly want one to be honest.

Perlexia's Avatar


Perlexia
01.05.2012 , 08:41 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Mandrax View Post
This issue is in every MMO of it's type. The answer is, if you don't feel you are good enough to move out of the fire and such, then maybe you should play a class more suited to your abilities.

I know it sounds harsh, but it is in fact the truth.
That's what im arguing against tho. It wasnt as extreme in every other MMO. WoW had this problem initially, but they alleviated it by smart encounter design and changing the classes up. It is not only a problem of avoiding damage too, but more importatnly that melee DPS on mentioned fights is CONSIDERABLY lower.

Perlexia's Avatar


Perlexia
01.05.2012 , 08:49 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by SWImara View Post
I honestly think they're about on par with every other MMO on launch. When I browse during the work day I am often filled with disgust and think "this is a new low" then I remember every other mainstream forum on launch, this is about par for course and honestly cleaning up faster than most I think.

As far as the OP's point, I get the feeling he is actually wrong in SWTOR but there is no parsing system so neither of us have the numbers to back our opinions up. Melee DPS seems to hit plenty hard in this game, certainly in PvP and I imagine just as much in PvE. I often feel in just about every MMO I've played that melee is the underdog, I get that feeling less here than I have in most games.

Note: I am not advocating a parsing system, I do not particularly want one to be honest.
I get your point, and it is true that we have no solid data yet, but: Every raid/group leader who has tried those encounters above with a melee DPS-heavy setup, knows what im talking about. The encounters are considerably harder, and I believe this shouldn't be the case. So from your post, I gather that you haven't tried the hard-mode FPs and Ops yet, maybe you should wait to see those in such a group.