Really Bioware?

That is the most retard exemple I have ever heard and you know what is worse? It is totally wrong...
You just compare a completly awful range dps spec only awesome in some world pvp, some bgs and 2s because of it's multiple snare, slow and root (dispell say hi?), to a class that:

DPS wise: can **** anything in pvp with a healer because of his 2 charges, 1 leap, slow, stun, SW, spell reflect, once upon a time needed mortal strike and holy burst.

Tanking wise: be the tank with the most tool(see above). Be incredible in pvp but not exactly the best except on some gimmick mechanic and adds for pve...

more tool = easier?! wat? arcane mage say hi!


I wouldn't call the end of the world yet on the JG/JK class yet but...
Wake the **** up from that lovely dream of yours.

Here's something plain and simple. Class uderperforms next to other tanks. But that's ok right? It takes more skill to play, something no one is gonna give a **** about when the time comes to pick a tank. But hey, someone has to bite the turd, right might as well be jugs.

But yeah, grats for trying to cover the obvious problem with pride. We need more people like you if this class is gonna be pulled out of the bottom.

Who ever said the class under performs? The class is harder because it doesn't abilities that other tank classes do but that has nothing to do with the performance / effectiveness of the tank. They are tanking hard modes just fine. For the last time: All I am saying is that they class is still viable and are effective tanks regardless of the difficulty. This probably wasn't biowares design but people are making it work. They aren't useless and aren't broken to the point to where you cant tank effectively because it's being done. People are complaining about how low Jugg tanking "dps" is compared to Power techs. Dps doesn't matter as long as you hold aggro.

I said it, after enough hardmodes and raid attempts. So yeah, I don't want to play the melee tank with less gap closers than ranged tanks. I want to play a proper melee tank that at least has the same amount of tools given to me.

You on the other hand, are going on about how it takes more skill to play. Like I said, no one in ther right mind will care, but yeah, you can wait till that reality comes and kicks your ***.

And LMAO at the frost mage vs warrior example. I played a warrior in WoW, in fact I played every tanking class there, but that's not the point, you know what? Warriors were BY NO MEANS hard to play, they were just preffered by poor players, but they had the tools, they just didn't need to use all to win. As far as warrior tanking goes, don't get me started. You just had to pretty much sit there and take it. A skill-cap tank was the blood DK. That was fun active tanking.

What a load of crap. DK tanking was doable with 2 buttons. Everything else was over the top.
There was nothing that needed skill about DK Tanking.

Warrior tanking was somewhat more difficult in classic when there werent AE abilities apart from a useless shout and thunderclap, so you had to tab-sunder and guesstimate how much agro you had on each mob.

Otherwise it had alot of situational buttons, but again that was somewhat over the top and maxing out that class. Sitting there and tanking could/can be done with crashing your face on the keyboard somewhere near slam, devastate and HS.

As for Juggernaut it's somewhat like classic WoW warrior. With the exeption that 70% of the mobs you tank are range and "vastly" spreaded. That can be a problem sometimes.

One keypart is to "ignore" normal mobs and don't get too nervous about loosing silver mobs.
Otherwise you have to tab alot and drop 1-2 abilites on mobs too keep agro against heals and occasional AEs.
What you basically can not do, and dont *********** tell me otherwise, is keep agro against AE damage from the start. 2 DDs shoot full damage on different mobs - you loose at least one. That has nothing to do with skill or something - the class simply wont give you that atm. PT and SA might be able to, don't know. Jugger won't.

In WoW at least, you traded this for having the best mitigation. Most of the lifetime of WoW other tank classes could not compete with warrior mitigation. You were better at avoiding peaks and less overall damage intake on most mobs, there were exeptions ofc.
For me that was the trade I wanted in WoW and it would be know. I expect it to be somewhat the same, alas there is not enough data yet for me at least to judge, how max level raid equipped tanks perform.

Really, when would force pull be so useful that it actually would be godsend lifesaver? If you think that is the biggest problem.. Well, good for you. Cone effect threat in addition to single target damage on force scream would be much more suitable addition to our arsenal, and it wouldn't be as game breaking in pvp as pull would be.

But yes, current hard modes can be cleared with ease as juggernaut, despite what you say. On some packs of trash your group will most likely need to use cc, same with any other tank because even if you get threat from all mobs you're going to take insane amount of damage, even if you pop all your defensive CD's.

You want another ability? when our class already is overbloated with abilites its making lfe hard as it is. Not sure how clickers can play the class actualy as they must have to stare constantly at there action bars, baring in mind it is impossible to place all your abilities as a lvl 50 on just the 2 bottom bars. Its bad enough keybinding with this class, i swear i have developed arthritus since playing this class.

Although sure, if you like haing to wear out your keyboard and having to hit keys faster than a proffesional pianist, go for it.

How about you ask bio nicely if they will change the Ui to be a tad easier to keep an eye on, or maybe combine or drop an ability or two. Better yet ask them to make the retarded useless ones actualy be useful, I'm looking at assault, your ever freindly rage builder but use for damage and threat = slaping your enemy with wet noodles, for one.

If you got force pull, you going to sacrifice force leap? You honestly think they would let you have both?

Ok, maybe they would, if they did then there going to have to make it so if you force pull your force leap gets put on cd and locked for x time. What you gain with one hand you lose with the other.

They let powertech have both along with ample ranges attacks and better AoE so I fail to see why they wouldn't let us have it and whyit would have to put charge on cooldown on use. It may have to share a cooldown with push, but I'm pretty sure most people would be fine with that.

How about you get some info before opening your mouth. Or maybe try one and tank a few bosses in firelands, well that was the hardest raid when I gave up. It was the most skill-based tank seeing how one mistake would screw you over, cause without bloodshield you are prone to two-shotting.