Really Bioware?

Number of tools has little, if anything, to do with skill cap. I.E. warcraft warriors. Any rank 1 warrior will easily have 1.5x the number of keybinds as another class. More tools. Higher skill cap. At least, they used to be, before the spell reflect etc. nerfs.

Warrior actually has a ton of tools as well, 3 charges (well 2 now), spammable snare, stuns, knockdowns (they can pretty much stun lock you), spell reflects, heal debuff. Just required more effort to use those tools than what a frost mage needed.

Fost mages were easy to play not because of the tools but because of the ease of the tools. Basically they could use 3 skills and CC while doing crap loads of damage. At one point you only needed 1 skill to beat people in pvp.

A high skill cap class that has legitimate difficulty has all the tools yet take finesse and timing to use those tools. Jugg the most timing you really need is your interrupt. Otherwise it doesn't take much skill. More skill than a merc or BH yes, but those also perform better with equal skilled players. Having a class gimped just for the sake of difficulty is a very poor design.

BS so you don't heal yourself have crap gear, no dps and manage to tank and kill faster the a warrior.

You know you could have left Hutt by level 9 being level 30 on Hutt isn't something to be proud of.

I don't quite understand your logic.. You say that with Juggs the most timing you need is your interrupt.. so they dont take much skill (given the fact that's wrong, Fear, Force Choke, Force push act as interrupts as well: lets just pretend that was right) Wouldn't you think because they ONLY have that 1 skill to manage it would be more difficult to use effectively because of the lack of tools? Anyways, this is getting no where. You keep bringing up that the class is gimped which is poor design etc.. which I understand. All im saying that it is still viable and it works if played right. There are sith juggs in end game hard mode playing the class effectively with no trouble. They may need fixing, but still viable.

I don't see the problem with Sith Juggs. I rolled a Sith Assassin the first time when it got first released and I didn't like how it's playstyle was like, though the DoT lifesteal was nice, I didn't like where I had to take more damage (I was madness specced ).

When I rolled a Sith Juggernaut, there's where I fell in love. I felt like I had enough tools to hold aggro, anymore and I might not have enough slots or remember the keys to press them. Backhand, Smash, Sweeping Slash, Force Scream and Taunt are already enough for me do my role as a -tank-. Yeah I can't kill things as fast and it takes more thought when running a flashpoint or heroic but that's why you're playing with other players. I'd rather mark those that need to be CC'd and charge into the fray, holding aggro while the rest of the team beats the content to dust and that lovely healer keeping you alive while you keep the rest of your team alive.

I like the immortal spec, shields, barriers and damage reduction for a few seconds and some of those buffs are stackable (+% defense, reduction in rage costs). I guess it'll take time to manage rage but after going in deeper into the Immortal tree, I nearly ever run out of rage, unless I spam my vicious strike. Lol.

In PvP, I had trouble at first, but once you've gotten more skilled, with reasonable gear, armor, defense rating etc etc. Immortal spec can be a beast and you're doing everyone a favor if more or half the enemy team is focusing on you, it lets your other team mates run with the ball and score in Huttball.

Now I never played beta and I might get flamed for being ignorant because I don't know the class as much, but so far being a Juggernaut with the current skills and tree, I am enjoying what I have and my role. I don't see why this class is weak at all. >.<

Okay, let me clarify. Not just overall abilities (some classes have an over abundance of useless ones), utility abilities. CC, Interrupts, Stuns etc.

Of course some forum pros come with the L2P routine, dunno why, I mean, does it make you feel big and strong? Takes you out of your little sad shell?

Fact is, this is a much needed tool for tanking, one we are missing. You think having minuses makes you more skilled? Wake up. It makes no difference, it just shortens your tactics list and it makes you inferior to other tanks. So no one is going to give a **** about how skilled you are because you lack abilities when the time comes to pick a tank that needs those abilities.

Plan and simple. The class doesn't need force pull. In every MMO, there is always a class that does a role better then the rest during some point in time between patches. We just happen to be on the short end of the stick ability wise. But like i said, sith juggs are tanking hard modes without problems so that's proof this class doesn't "need" force pull. The class is still playable without force pull. Force pull doesn't make / break this class.

Comment removed - No point.

I didn't say I don't heal myself. I said that everything about leveling as an operative is faster, easier, and less painful than leveling a warrior.