Grouped with a power tech today...disheartening

Many mobs you cannot do that with in this game, they stay ranged and simply do not move, and we have no tool to get them into melee range since force pull was taken from us in beta.

Ideally, I would want to gather the mobs and put myself against a wall, but it simply doesn't work out that way in many Flashpoints cause either the mobs do not move and group up in a game that is more ranged based, or you don't have walls to go against most of the time (thinking of the False Emperor Flashpoint for example...where your back against a wall usually means a KB throwing you over the edge of the platform).

Juggs have a problem dealing with a group of ranged mobs, kb's and slows. Pretty much always been this way since beta where folks have complained about it. Most of the tools to deal with these we removed for PvP reasons and the worrry of making us unkiteable.

First off, reading this entire thread made me smile. It really was quite amusing.

1. Juggs are phenomenal single target tanks with excellent mitigation abilities. It has a much higher skill cap than the other classes. In this regard, it doesn't make the class better worse, it makes it different. It suits some peoples play styles and not so much to others.

2. AOEing tanking takes more paying attention. What's the fun in standing there and spamming 3-4 aoe abilities over and over. At least for me that sounds pretty boring.

3. If you don't like it, don't play it.

he probably put guard on you.

There is no combat log. Nothing can be proven yet so all we have to go on is shady evidence. This is why you have to qualify your statement by proving some level of credibility.

I know this sounds crazy, but prhaps he was better than you?

I just read the whole post one shot. All i usually play is tank in every mmo and like Yfelsung, i did alot of wow in my career but i did try almost every mmo.

So what's my point of view on that? I think Yfelsung is really right about everything that was discussed.

Most people on the forum are blind people that wanna see their favorite class upped because they feel subpar, i can understand that but that doesnt mean i do agree.

Im around 40 with my jugg so far and i got no problem tanking. The only time i was having a hard time was 1 to 13. Since i got guard and soresu form, its a breeze.

Just to make a small WoW notice on that. I love to compare to wow too since there is alot of different class and ALOT of people played it, i could compare to everquest 2 or AION or Warhammer but not that much people played it compared to wow.

So lets give an exemple , we are in Burning crusade, sith juggernaut is a warrior and bounty hunter is a paladin. One is king in single target, the other in aoe. Both can do what the other do, the paladin could single target tank and the warrior could aoe threat but they were not the "BEST" at it.

So how would i react having a Powertech BH taking aggro from me?
1- What the hell are we having 2 tanks in a 5 man group?
2- Why the hell is he tanking MY mob(s)? (some fight require 2 tanks for mechanic)
3- Did that ***** put a guard on me or something? (never saw if it would be applyable but i can be a reason if it is possible)
Is it bad if he take aggro from you? No he is a tank.
Is your class worthless and broken? No he is a tank.
You shouldnt have that dilema under level 40 because everything is a one man tank fight. I always did fine with my jugg so far, i dont see what is the problem. As long as any other group member other then a tank dont have aggro , the rest is an epeen contest.

----My view on tanking with a jugg at lower level----

I find my Juggernaut an incredible tank but if i need to go lets say on a 4 mobs pull, it require a little bit of work.

So first of all , the juggernaut is a TAB tank for aoe, like a tabbing sunder warrior
Lets take a low level priority i was using. So first put your defensive stance (soresu) and put guard on the person who do the best dps. Force charge in a group , smash the ground , free scream the target you wanna make sure YOU NEVER LOSE AGGRO ON (#1).

so lets put fake number to help you guys out.
#1 mob : 100 aggro
#2 mob : 50 aggro
#3 mob : 50 aggro
#4 mob : 50 aggro

Ok so one mob is well underway! now its time for the technique alot of beginner tank dont know about, tab attacking! You see, if you use saberward or if you got alot of defence, the skill retaliation will only cost you 1 and will come back quite often. This is the perfect ability to start mashing on different target while you still keep yourself on your main target. So tab and hit a target with it. If youre like me , sometime i pick up mob with my mouse that i know i have been neglecting and deal some damage. The goal is to keep the above number as high as possible on every mob. Those number are invisible and they are here for everyone. So its kinda like a race where you gotta beat people to. You know the mercenary gonna drop some heavy AOE, quick , smash and try hitting everyone a little bit, even if its your combo builder. Your goal is not to kill the target but to get the aggro and keep it on you, so even if you spread your damage everywhere, nobody care as long as you do your job.

After a while you can be around

#1 mob : 405 aggro
#2 mob : 440 aggro
#3 mob : 195 aggro
#4 mob : 400 aggro

So there you see, you been neglecting the ranged in the corner , try screaming at him or just force charge , drop one or two hit , just make sure he keep under your control so the healer doesnt take healing aggro or dps get aggro from aoe. Then return to the focused target and keep killing in the order you want. Dont forget that communication is a huge factor and assisting really help out. If someone is on the #1 , another on #2 , another on #3, everyone going all out on them ... they are really not helping the group or the situation. Why? First every target die more slowly, meaning there is more damage going on the tank for a longer period or if the aggro is spread then some people take a beating, ruining the healer's mana (or whatever the ressource). So if your group play like *******, it will always be harder to AoE tank, even more if your tank is not the "king" of that domain.

Its all simple and easy. Alot of people will write "I know about that, im no dumb ***". But clearly , why with green/blue gear from quest my pet never steal aggro? Why in group i usually have 95% of the aggro at all time. Of course i do mistake, of course i do get lazy etc. I might lose one on 100 but still, its fairly easy and doable as a jugg.

I dont understand why the hell its a problem when another tank pulls agro of you?

DK Threat was of the hook compared to warrior threat for a long time, still prot warriors held agro against DD and had way better mitigation.

As long as I can keep agro against DDs and have better mitigation its the powertech that needs a buff to be equal not me?

the thinking is...

i lose aggro from a tank ... ok, he can aoe taunt, he can single taunt , he have perhaps better aoe? perhaps aoe with high threat? does he have an early start on me to get the initial aggro boost? do he have guard on me? (if its possible to do that i dont know) Why are we attacking the same mobs? (tank should each tank something seperatly) Why are we 2 tanks in a 5 man? (change stance and do some dps) Is a regular party member (dps & heal) have aggro? no ? everything is fine then

So if nobody else then a tank have aggro, you cant cry because trying to take aggro from another tank depend on skill , level, gameplay experience, the pull , the resistance of the enemies and your own way to play (skills).

So if i was in a situation with my juggernaut where there would be a Powertech lifting off to do Death from above, i would search in the if there is a Boss (golden/silver) or if there is a golden star mob. Let the AoE king handle threat on all the ranged/runner etc. Of course you can drop a smash in to make sure that healer doesnt take aggro or whatever but concentrate on what you do best , take the highest damage dealing mob or the strongest in the group and single tank it, there is no way (except if taunt) that he will rip it from a jugg.

There is no way to battle the willfully ignorant. You should avoid grouping with people that base opinions off of hearsay. They will usually be horrible players and just blame everyone else around them or their own shortcomings.

I have had folks tell me that I am an amazing tank and that I changed their minds about juggernaut tanking. Our bad rep has been earned by bad players. Dare to prove the doubters wrong. If you learn what your abilities do and when to use them you will shine.

Well said and very true! It gets a lot better in the 40's when you're full Immortal. You can take a ton of damage but you definitely have to be a master of multi tasking and manage agro while watching the movement of the mobs and keeping a close eye on your party. Its a fun class.