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Darth Zannah vs Jancen Solo aka Darth Caedus

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Darth Zannah vs Jancen Solo aka Darth Caedus

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.01.2012 , 02:55 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by LordRelyks View Post
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So lets see..Zannah murdered a prophet Sith'ari, correct? Caedus only whined and complained, so Zannah wins.
Caedus injured Luke Force God Skywalker in a duel. Bane only filled one aspect of the prophecy. The Sith'ari was also supposed to be invincible. This obviously isn't true. Zannah was surpassed by her student who was surpassed.. up until Sidious who Jacen in many ways rivaled. And not just sidious of the movies. We're talking about Sidious reborn. I don't like Caedus much but sarcasm and personality aside. He's much more powerful.

Durzaka's Avatar


Durzaka
01.01.2012 , 03:19 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by jmjon View Post
Yeah, this is irrelevant, the Rule of Two chain was broken when Sideous was thrown down a bottomless shaft followed by Vader dying 5 minutes later.
This.


Rule of Two only matters when the master/apprentice keep training in one long chain.

Caedus was kinda self-proclaimed almost.
Durzaka Retribution

Deathforged's Avatar


Deathforged
01.01.2012 , 05:29 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
Sidious killed his master when he was more powerful and skilled than him as leland chee stated. Also Sidious exploited a weakness he doesn't possess. Sidious doesn't sleep.
That doesn't mean he could have defeated his master in a straight up fight which is what most people consider powerful. When Malak took a cheap shot at Revan when he thought he was more powerful and skilled he even said he regretted not proving it in fair combat because it left questions. Turns out Malak wasn't stronger or more skilled.

Deathforged's Avatar


Deathforged
01.01.2012 , 05:31 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Durzaka View Post
This.


Rule of Two only matters when the master/apprentice keep training in one long chain.

Caedus was kinda self-proclaimed almost.
Vader could never defeat Sidious in an open challenge which is why he kept concocting different plans in order to kill him. Had Vaders plans worked though he would be considered stronger when in fact he couldn't actually defeat Sidious on his own.

DarthVarrak's Avatar


DarthVarrak
01.01.2012 , 07:11 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Deathforged View Post
That doesn't mean he could have defeated his master in a straight up fight which is what most people consider powerful. When Malak took a cheap shot at Revan when he thought he was more powerful and skilled he even said he regretted not proving it in fair combat because it left questions. Turns out Malak wasn't stronger or more skilled.
A straight up fight has never been the Sith way. Darth Bane himself, creator of the Rule of Two, has stated several times that the tools of the Sith are cunning, betrayal, and deceit. It is the way of the Dark Side, always has been. Any Sith who believes otherwise isn't worthy of using the Dark Side. Again, this is shown by how Darth Bane handled Lord Kaan and the Brotherhood of Darkness. Also shown when Darth Bane fought against Lord Kas'im on Lehon at the Temple of the Rakata.
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Deathforged's Avatar


Deathforged
01.01.2012 , 07:43 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVarrak View Post
A straight up fight has never been the Sith way. Darth Bane himself, creator of the Rule of Two, has stated several times that the tools of the Sith are cunning, betrayal, and deceit. It is the way of the Dark Side, always has been. Any Sith who believes otherwise isn't worthy of using the Dark Side. Again, this is shown by how Darth Bane handled Lord Kaan and the Brotherhood of Darkness. Also shown when Darth Bane fought against Lord Kas'im on Lehon at the Temple of the Rakata.
Point taken but being more cunning and deceitful doesn't mean you are more powerful.

Case in point Sidious didn't surpass his masters knowledge as he even tells Anakin that he never figured out how his master prolonged his life but that maybe they could figure it out together.

bfishback's Avatar


bfishback
01.01.2012 , 07:46 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVarrak View Post
A straight up fight has never been the Sith way. Darth Bane himself, creator of the Rule of Two, has stated several times that the tools of the Sith are cunning, betrayal, and deceit. It is the way of the Dark Side, always has been. Any Sith who believes otherwise isn't worthy of using the Dark Side. Again, this is shown by how Darth Bane handled Lord Kaan and the Brotherhood of Darkness. Also shown when Darth Bane fought against Lord Kas'im on Lehon at the Temple of the Rakata.
But his rule of two was created to enhance the power of the Sith.

Bane gets paranoid that his apprentice might just wait till he is frail and weak to challenge him. He doesn't think that Zannah would be more powerful then him because she could do that, no one would.

Deception is good, yes. Bane believes deception is a way of the dark side, yes. But he never wanted the final fight between the apprentice and master be a unfair tactic like killing your master in his sleep.

DarthVarrak's Avatar


DarthVarrak
01.01.2012 , 07:49 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Deathforged View Post
Point taken but being more cunning and deceitful doesn't mean you are more powerful.

Case in point Sidious didn't surpass his masters knowledge as he even tells Anakin that he never figured out how his master prolonged his life but that maybe they could figure it out together.
Powerful is debateable. One man's weakness will always be another man's strength. But as far as knowledge goes, Sidious found his own way to extend his life through his clones in the novelizations of episodes 7, 8, and 9.

But, back to power. In the Dark Side, being more cunning and deceitful does indeed make you more powerful. You are alive, they are dead. Therefore, by the Dark Side, you are the rightful Lord of the Sith. Doesn't matter how they died. The Dark Side is strongest when it is owned by only one person. The moment Sidious killed Plagueis he became more powerful. The moment Zannah killed Bane she became more powerful. There is no honor or glory in the Dark Side. As Darth Bane was fond of saying, "Honor is a fool's prize, there is no glory for the dead."
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DarthVarrak's Avatar


DarthVarrak
01.01.2012 , 07:52 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by bfishback View Post
But his rule of two was created to enhance the power of the Sith.

Bane gets paranoid that his apprentice might just wait till he is frail and weak to challenge him. He doesn't think that Zannah would be more powerful then him because she could do that, no one would.

Deception is good, yes. Bane believes deception is a way of the dark side, yes. But he never wanted the final fight between the apprentice and master be a unfair tactic like killing your master in his sleep.
That is not the same thing. If that had happened, Zannah would have waited until Bane was frail and his health was failing. Plagueis health was fine, he was just caught sleeping in an accessible area, which is his failure. Bane was never caught off his guard like. He made a desparate attempt in his fight with Zannah with sorcery he had never done before and failed. Both Darths were in fine health, but they still lost. The way they lost doesn't matter. It's not like Plagueis was being held down. He should have subconsiously sensed Sidious through the Force and sensed his intentions.
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Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.01.2012 , 09:56 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVarrak View Post
He should have subconsiously sensed Sidious through the Force and sensed his intentions.
This only proves that Sidious was far more powerful then his master, if the master couldn't sense his apprentice's intentions he is weaker then the apprentice himself. There are 3 things that notify that Plagueis was weaker then Sidious.

1. He slept and his apprentice figured out where he slept, thus he failed in hiding and an even bigger failure that he had his guard down

2. He taught Sidious everything he knew(save for immortality, but that is irrelvent as Sidious figures out a way to achieve this anyway.)

3. He couldn't sense what his apprentice was about to do, this was clearly the biggest sign that Sidious was more powerful then his master. Force sense to the jedi/sith are pretty much like breathing, the moment you can't sense another's intentions you are lost and you will die.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.