Juggernaut Tanking - Avoid like the plague!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
Juggernaut Tanking - Avoid like the plague!

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Lakshri

01.01.2012 , 12:16 PM \| #71	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardelia We're not talking about features, though, we're talking about skills and viability....stop the "modern MMO" kneejerk reaction and think about the context. The skills need to be consistent with threat and damage intake needs in this game. The WoW Prot warrior has more frequent CDs now, sure...but that game also has a vastly different mob damage paradigm now than it did 7 years ago. Vanilla WoW is a good comparison because, as everything looks so far, threat management and damage intake appear to be very similar to the Vanilla WoW paradigm. So, yes, it's a perfectly valid comparison....if 2 VERY long CDs were sufficient for tanks to be successful in a similar damage-intake environment, 3 3-min CDs should be more than sufficient here. 1st I said I agree with your post 2nd vanilla wow its not good comparison because this should learn from 8 years old game not repeat same problems ...
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Dassem

01.01.2012 , 12:22 PM \| #72	Quote
I wouldn't say they are repeating problems at all since there wasn't anything wrong with tanking in vanilla WoW.

Lakshri

01.01.2012 , 12:33 PM \| #73	Quote
Sorry my english is bad Well at that time only war could tank so that was problem otherwise you are 100% right at that time it was really good everyone learned using tab and switch between mobs or just re rolled but now its bad when every other class advanced 8 years and warriors are vanilla like that is bad. Maybe those warriors now can hold all aggro but wait few weeks when people are geared and know their rotation ... tabing between mobs will not work any more and we will get replaced by sins or BH also ppl in vanilla used CC and priority targets now you cant except that from casual pug why? because BH and Sins dont need them so they dont care about jugs then if this was problem with all 3 classes people would use CC and adjust to situation but now we just get replaced by more viable tanks
Owner of Collector's Edition

Ardelia

01.01.2012 , 12:36 PM \| #74	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Dassem I wouldn't say they are repeating problems at all since there wasn't anything wrong with tanking in vanilla WoW. This. I know you said you agreed, but it's wrong to call Vanilla WoW's tanking environment a failure, and i think it's important to understand that WoW's tanking environment moving into later expansions was a DEvolution, not an evolution. We WANT this game to tank like Vanilla WoW, not like LK or Cata. If anything, TBC and (especially) LK were the failures. Starting in TBC, and getting much more prominent in LK, overall damage intake took a back seat to total Effective Health. Bosses started hitting with single-hit abilities that hit like like trains carrying trucks full of pianos, and tanking focus became all about the maximum total damage burst you could survive. in THAT environment, yes, a 5-min and 30-min cooldown setup would have been a mistake. Before that was the case, though...back when bosses did damage designed to test a healer's ability to keep a given tank up, not test that tank's armor and total health pool, the abilities were perfectly viable. That's the kind of environment we're looking at here, and for that environment, 3 3-min CD abilities is more than sufficient.

Tengobotas

01.01.2012 , 12:37 PM \| #75	Quote
I love how everyone says L2P regarding juggs and then they talk about how theyre tanking and all they do is spam taunt... what an amazing class design! /s
The body cannot go where the mind has not already been.

Lakshri

01.01.2012 , 12:39 PM \| #76	Quote
I did not mean failure you can say "old model" now Still for me WoW died when they removed pre quest to TK (about 40% of TBC?)I played till firelands but only for friends and I really hope TOR will not move to same direction as WoW
Owner of Collector's Edition

Ardelia

01.01.2012 , 12:40 PM \| #77	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Lakshri Maybe those warriors now can hold all aggro but wait few weeks when people are geared and know their rotation ... tabing between mobs will not work any more and we will get replaced by sins or BH No...there'll simply be a vast difference between a Jugg that's trying to tank like a WoW pally (and failing), and a Jugg that tanks skillfully. The first will get replaced by a better tank. The second will succeed, and have an amazing amount of fun doing it. ...as it should be. This SHOULD be exactly what we want.

Dassem

01.01.2012 , 12:44 PM \| #78	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardelia This. I know you said you agreed, but it's wrong to call Vanilla WoW's tanking environment a failure, and i think it's important to understand that WoW's tanking environment moving into later expansions was a DEvolution, not an evolution. We WANT this game to tank like Vanilla WoW, not like LK or Cata. If anything, TBC and (especially) LK were the failures. Starting in TBC, and getting much more prominent in LK, overall damage intake took a back seat to total Effective Health. Bosses started hitting with single-hit abilities that hit like like trains carrying trucks full of pianos, and tanking focus became all about the maximum total damage burst you could survive. in THAT environment, yes, a 5-min and 30-min cooldown setup would have been a mistake. Before that was the case, though...back when bosses did damage designed to test a healer's ability to keep a given tank up, not test that tank's armor and total health pool, the abilities were perfectly viable. That's the kind of environment we're looking at here, and for that environment, 3 3-min CD abilities is more than sufficient. You've summed up my thoughts exactly, I feel spoiled having those 3 abilities on such short CD's.

Lakshri

01.01.2012 , 12:45 PM \| #79	Quote
Wrong everyone will take other 2 classes .. Sorry there is no way we will hold something when people will get geared and l2p dmg class we do not have abilities for that
Owner of Collector's Edition

Ardelia

01.01.2012 , 12:48 PM \| #80	Quote
Don't get me wrong....I understand your point. You're saying that most players' recent experience is with modern WoW, therefore they won't be able to handle basics like focus targetting, CC, and essentially playing more intelligently than an AoE faceroll gigglefest. You're saying that Juggs don't handle stupid players as well, therefore you're saying we need to be modified to compensate. I think it'd be a crying shame if this class were designed to accommodate the lowest player common denominator, not when we can instead have a class design that allows more skilled player to truly shine.

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