Juggernaut Tanking - Avoid like the plague!

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Juggernaut Tanking - Avoid like the plague!

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darthjerro

01.01.2012 , 10:36 AM \| #61	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ichimaruu If anyone is thinking of making a juggernaut to tank, think again; this class is severely lacking in the threat department, whilst single target is a pain to try to hold threat, multi-target is a complete mess and will have you running around like a headless chicken frantically trying to round up mobs. Until a patch fixes this, Juggernaut's are not viable to tank Flashpoints at high levels. It seems as if Bioware missed something here; if you give a class heavy armour, it does not mean that he will hold aggro. Who knew? Avoid like the plague. Do you know why tanking with my jug gives me pleasure beyod belief? Because it feels like the old school prot warrior from bc before the game got nerfed into aoe everything. Tab targets , taunt that one, scream that one, jump over to him ( charge ) gain enough aggro on that one, find another lose mob, force choke that one.A few together, slam and sweeping slash, force push another of a bridge...Every fight you can make different. It doesnt allways have to be charge in and aoe. Experiment starting with force scream, see who cmes your way, you can always aoe taunt..... So many possibilities..I thought like you did when i was around lvl 20, until i got a few more tanking tools and played around with them some. Even crappy pugs i can make work somehow ( with the healers help ofcoarse ). I think IMHO, only pick a jug tank if youve had previous tanking experience ( paladins dont count ), if youve played a prot warrior in early wow, even a warrior in rift,lotro or aion. Most importantly , you have to have tab pretty much hotkeyed and stuck to your finger with glue, as youll use it more then anything else.
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magicaldork

01.01.2012 , 10:51 AM \| #62	Quote
Learning how to play the game as a whole is a good thing. I as a Jugg run in and die if I am dumb. I was running Heroic +4s last night and I was 4 levels lower then the dps/healer. I was able to keep the elites on me with only the occasional issue. I only lost a champion one time. And that was due to my own fault. I clicked the wrong button. I also went in and did a FP where I was 2 levels under the rest of the group. On the one boss, we did not realize the boss pattern and I missed the adds when they first came in. In case anyone is cares I was a level 34 Jugg at the time.

Rafkin

01.01.2012 , 11:01 AM \| #63	Quote
It is a rough start. I'll give you that. But at level 35 i feel like i finally have the tools i need. Plus changing my habits learned in other games. (You dont need to tank every mob in a group. Hard habit to break i know) The only issue i have now is the camera. I wish i could pull back a little more to see those ranged mobs better. But meh...someone should cc them anyway.

LordDoberman

01.01.2012 , 11:16 AM \| #64	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Greystonez If you're having trouble tankin as Immortal just do yourself a favor and roll another class. Seriously man Immortal tank spec is amazing. GRANTED, I am only level 30 atm So you don't know what you're talking about. I'm playing Jugg 50 full artefact gear and 18k hp unbuff ... I tanked a lot of stuff ... And the Immortal spec is BROKEN ! When you play with random brainless damage dealers you won't lose any aggro. When I play with my mates who have an insane damage output on boss (theorycraft ftw), I can't keep a stable aggro ... Now what ? I'm a noob who need to reroll ? I don't think so ... I did some tests ... Charge + Sundering + Crushing + Backhand, the marauder cast Ravage and I loose aggro ... *** ? - No good abilities for multi tanking ! - Threat gen is so broken ... - Smash is completely broken and mobs don't take any damage 50% of time (odd because this is not happening in Rage spec). - Ravage animation is launching for 3 secs but don't do any damage and the cooldown is not triggered ... no possibility to cancel the cast even if it's bugged. - Sometimes Sweeping Slash consumes rage but don't do any damage ... - Pommel Strike ... it's like a bad joke ... etc ... No seriously guys, face the truth ... this class is really really broken ! I enjoy playing it because I like challenge and having a lot of spell to use is really fun ... but the Jugg really needs some changes. If you don't see any problem tanking with an immortal Jugg ... I highly suggest you to find some real teammates ... then you'll see that even with a good team coordination, crowd controls and whatever strategy used to maximize the threat generated by the jugg ... you won't be able to do anything. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the Juggernaut to become a brainless tanking machine like the BH/Trooper ... I just want my spells to generate threat ! And I would like to know why the grip from the beta is not there anymore ... it would really help us without making the job too easy for multi tanking. I don't want a complete modification of the Juggernaut, just some tweaks and fixes ...

Lakshri

01.01.2012 , 11:44 AM \| #65	Quote
Do you know what will be funny? Let me tell you with juggernauts state right now give it few weeks when everyone will be in epics and can do basic rotation with their DPS class and there will be no way you can hold something on you it will be even much worse than in wow before vengeance oh and also someone said that backhand threat is just old tooltip so its just another dmg ability without threat
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Ardelia

01.01.2012 , 11:54 AM \| #66	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Barzarel outside our insanely long CD abilities like Saber Ward or Invincibility 3 minutes isn't insanely long. 3 emergency tanking CDs (Saber Ward, Invincibility, and Endure Pain) on 3min CDs each, is actually very generous for tanking CDs. Compare to a Vanilla WoW Prot warrior....who had two CDs...one at 5min, one at 30 min.

Lakshri

01.01.2012 , 12:02 PM \| #67	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardelia 3 minutes isn't insanely long. 3 emergency tanking CDs (Saber Ward, Invincibility, and Endure Pain) on 3min CDs each, is actually very generous for tanking CDs. Compare to a Vanilla WoW Prot warrior....who had two CDs...one at 5min, one at 30 min. vanilla wow hmm 7 years ago with modified engine from 2001 ? I am really sick of people comparing it to vanilla wow sorry but there's been quite few years for improvement so just saying vanilla wow got this or vanilla wow did not have these too it's really .... tho I agree on your post
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Ardelia

01.01.2012 , 12:07 PM \| #68	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Lakshri vanilla wow hmm 7 years ago with modified engine from 2001 ? I am really sick of people comparing it to vanilla wow sorry but there's been quite few years for improvement so just saying vanilla wow got this or vanilla wow did not have these too it's really .... We're not talking about features, though, we're talking about skills and viability....stop the "modern MMO" kneejerk reaction and think about the context. The skills need to be consistent with threat and damage intake needs in this game. The WoW Prot warrior has more frequent CDs now, sure...but that game also has a vastly different mob damage paradigm now than it did 7 years ago. Vanilla WoW is a good comparison because, as everything looks so far, threat management and damage intake appear to be very similar to the Vanilla WoW paradigm. So, yes, it's a perfectly valid comparison....if 2 VERY long CDs were sufficient for tanks to be successful in a similar damage-intake environment, 3 3-min CDs should be more than sufficient here.

Purecrew

01.01.2012 , 12:07 PM \| #69	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by LordDoberman So you don't know what you're talking about. I'm playing Jugg 50 full artefact gear and 18k hp unbuff ... I tanked a lot of stuff ... And the Immortal spec is BROKEN ! When you play with random brainless damage dealers you won't lose any aggro. When I play with my mates who have an insane damage output on boss (theorycraft ftw), I can't keep a stable aggro ... Now what ? I'm a noob who need to reroll ? I don't think so ... I did some tests ... Charge + Sundering + Crushing + Backhand, the marauder cast Ravage and I loose aggro ... *** ? - No good abilities for multi tanking ! - Threat gen is so broken ... - Smash is completely broken and mobs don't take any damage 50% of time (odd because this is not happening in Rage spec). - Ravage animation is launching for 3 secs but don't do any damage and the cooldown is not triggered ... no possibility to cancel the cast even if it's bugged. - Sometimes Sweeping Slash consumes rage but don't do any damage ... - Pommel Strike ... it's like a bad joke ... etc ... No seriously guys, face the truth ... this class is really really broken ! I enjoy playing it because I like challenge and having a lot of spell to use is really fun ... but the Jugg really needs some changes. If you don't see any problem tanking with an immortal Jugg ... I highly suggest you to find some real teammates ... then you'll see that even with a good team coordination, crowd controls and whatever strategy used to maximize the threat generated by the jugg ... you won't be able to do anything. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the Juggernaut to become a brainless tanking machine like the BH/Trooper ... I just want my spells to generate threat ! And I would like to know why the grip from the beta is not there anymore ... it would really help us without making the job too easy for multi tanking. I don't want a complete modification of the Juggernaut, just some tweaks and fixes ... I can see where you are coming from, Currently I outgear my friends that run with me by a ton. If I don't put my guard on the opperative he will pull with his initial opening burst. However when he gets to be as geared as myself I think I'll be screwed, Good thing they know Jugger threat is broken or they might be calling me bad. I would love to see either a talent that increases threat on certain moves, or overall threat on top of our threat stance.

CBdragon

01.01.2012 , 12:11 PM \| #70	Quote
Even though the OP was probably trolling with this post it has actually produced some really good tanking advice for the jugg. Thanks to everyone who contributed. I think the Powertech is still the best tank atm but the jugg is pretty fun to play as a tank especially after level 30. There will almost certainly be tweeks coming in the next few months but Juggs, when played well, can be very effective tanks in flashpoints.

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