'End' game silliness.

ugh and stuff

20 people having to group for repetitively grinding the same instances for 0.1% chance drops for months.

Apparently you really cannot grasp the social element behind mmo's. You dont become as good of friends with a stranger helping you out during 1 lvling mission then 19 other people showing up night after night progressing towards a goal for the benefit of not only themselves but their counterparts.

There's just one problem...if people don't have anything to do once they hit max level, they will stop playing the game. That means that there needs to be such things as raids to keep people occupied. Ideally, a new raid would be released every couple months, or have a progression to it, like Everquest did in Planes of Power. This keeps people engaged in the game and busy.

For an MMO, endgame is a must. Otherwise, it's a single player game with coop and chat boxes.

Op cannot comprehend this nor post a proper alternative that is realisitic.

Your entire argument is based off of the false mentality that a profitable amount of subscribers are willing to pay monthly for "story"

Most people are only going to pay a subscription, if there is a form of endgame content like Raiding, or Competitive PvP, that justifies the monthly cost; as opposed to a single player story

LOL i said help him...not....well never mind

there is a problem when people participate in discussions without employing the capability of reading comprehension.

how did you miss the fact that i have stated that progression should come through progression of story through expansions at an even pace - not making people repeat the same worn-out dungeon for 30 times ?

surely - not everyone likes to do anything particular. but, also not everyone has to oblige with the small majority that rushes to achievements - like you.

excuse me but its your problem that you rushed to level 48. you may argue you are not rushing, but that's your perspective. apparently game was designed properly for a progression speed of the majority of gamers, and not you.

its not anyone else's problem that you rush through things and then get bored. society just cant keep you satisfied, wherever you go.

this was also stated in my original post. however apparently reading comprehension lacked there again. or you just dont see yourself falling in that group.

anyone who did raiding in wow would easily tell you the percentages and the gear progression rate. and these are lucky numbers if you end up in good guilds too - some were not that lucky.

if someone is not aware of concepts like spreadsheets, places like elitistjerks and what talk goes on there, s/he should not talk about progression/mmo/endgames in grand fashion.

yes - instead 95% of the players should be obliged and entire resources be spent for some 5% selfish minority who were hardcore rushers/progressers enough to be able to see molten core in vanilla wow. even when wow was at its most hardcore point actually.

this is actual blizzard statistic. your segment is basically 5%, and you want everyone else to be b**ches to you.

we dont want that.

because your 5% segment wants everyone else to be subjected to the same gameplay. the rest, does not want that. you also demand the resources of entire development to be spent satisfying you.

your hobby does not supersede others'.

until expansion comes. and only true in games like everquest/wow which are timesinks for exploiting the progressive desires of some hardcore minority. so that they can be kept subscribed with a carrot that slowly drops.

congrats - you are a minority even among the minority that is the hardcore progressives. your kind is rare to chance against. and you are lucky. most of the hardcore raiding guilds quit when their progression was complete in the servers i played in wow. they went to other games.

so basically you are among the rare small percentage out of the 5% that has seen wow endgame raids. exceptions dont make a rule.

and excuse me if we refuse to have entire game designed around your ridiculously small population numbers.

wooooooooooow. seems like a lot of fun !! ................ ehhh ....

no it wouldnt.

naturally in any game, reaching end of a game, would end the game. also your character. in games that continue the story with expansions, you character gets carried to the next expansion.

only in everquest/wow timesinks, your character spends more time in 85 than level 84. and that is simply because a huge repetitive timesink is introduced into the game at that end point.. its not that there is 'much more to do' at that point - you do the same thing over and over and over.

normally the story should continue into new storyline and environments with a new book/expansion.

'somewhat interesting' does not suffice as 'entertainment'. a lot of things are somewhat interesting in life. yet, you rarely do any of them 40 times.

so basically you just want to reach the max point. so, you are an achiever - not a player. you want to achieve the highest point you can come to, and stay there. and that's your poison.

that's also our poison - it poisons games.


considering what you said above, it seems to be THE factor. for, if it was chance of dropping of great stuff, purples dropping randomly while you were questing would give you the same satisfaction. if it was progression, progressing while leveling is much more noticeable and engaging than seeing your progression in endgame spreadsheet statistics.

basically you are playing to max yourself out and achieve.

respect does not mean that i should see them as valid and i should oblige by them.

i respect these inclinations. but, these inclinations dont respect me. see, here you are, just continuing the trend of demanding that games should be entire progressive timesinks with huge repetitions in the end so you can feel maxed out.

yes. democracy is actually really annoying - especially when it allows people like your guildie, who is playing a game for achieving 'being unkillable', and is not satisfied because he is not able to achieve being more unkillable through this or that.

basically he was not playing the game for star wars, or environment, or social amenities, or creativity. he was playing it for maxing out and topping out.

and that is the sentence that summarizes the entire problem : you people play games for hardcore progression. and you want everyone else to fit in your preferred progression scheme, or else.

see, your gameplay, does not leave room for others' gameplay. its either/or. if anyone is given any freedom/liberty, your illusion of having maxed out through grinding effort in endgame, will shatter.

if otherwise, people will be subjected to a long unrewarding grind.

quite. and it is the new phenomenon in gaming.

and it is just another pointer how mmos do not need to be leveling maxed-out repetitive grindfests like wow or everquest.

how many people other than hardcore progressives who rushed through, or 'not rushed through' and got to 50 are pissy as of this point in swtor ?

noone. millions playing the game and enjoying the story and its progression.

progression is possible without repetitive endgame dungeons.

you work the stuff off of 95% majority people - people who enjoy progression of a story at a normal pace, rather than maxing out and grinding in the endgame dungeons for months.

because, the latter group, is a very small minority despite the apparent segmentations within themselves - there may be people grinding 12 hours in one boss, there may be people who meet 2 weeknights for 4 hours each to make 2 raids a week. (which group i was also raiding in by the way).

neither group can come close to the 95% 'casual' majority which does not like grinding/repetition.

therefore, arrangement of 'endgame' instances/content to be 4-5 times runs for this group, would prosper a game.

surely. repeating the same instance 40 times is MUCH better.

"only in everquest/wow timesinks, your character spends more time in 85 than level 84. and that is simply because a huge repetitive timesink is introduced into the game at that end point.."-op

This is going to blow your mind op.

Did you ever stop to think that lvls 1-85 are the timesink, and 85 is where the game starts?

i am appalled at the fact that how people, who are in the minority hardcore segment of gaming, think that only their money exists, and noone else other than them pay for games.

excuse me, your segment - and my former segment by the way - is just 5%. a measly 5%, even in then-existing rather hardcore gaming crowd of vanilla wow - tbc. all kinds of segments that came to wow, ranging from ex starcraft players to ex everquest players, to ex ultima online players, fit in that.

and, from among this entire playerbase of already veteran gamers, ONLY 5% saw wow's endgame raids in vanilla and tbc.

a pathetically low amount from among even largely veteran gamer population.

who would pay monthly subscription to follow a good story ? pretty much rest of the population.

the same people who paid endless amount of cash for kotor 1/2, mass effect 1/2, dragon age 1/2. they are still paying and buying these, by the way.

the only drawbacks to these games was that, a new one of them was not coming out every 6 months.

thats the delusion of hardcore progressives. you only think your segment exists. whereas you are in the minority. even in veteran gamer crowd.

that is as such in wow and everquest, and it is because these games are designed to be so.

its also the same reason why wow had to go free to play 1-20. game was a long boring grid to endgame raidfest, and people were just not playing again, or leveling new toons (majority), and newcomers were quitting before 20.

and they have gone free to play in order to be able to hook up as many grinders they can from the general gaming population.

@OP You realy don't "get" MMOs , so I am guessing you at least work in the industry, if not BW/EA directly.

Mass story telling is very difficult, it becomes impossible when everyone wants to be "The Chosen One" . You cannot base a game on mass story telling of a personal nature. You can tell a meta story that everyone has a role (however small) in and let the player come up with the details of their story. BW style of story telling doesn't work in a mass enviroment.

The allure of "Endgame" is the social aspect of the game.