'End' game silliness.

I enjoy raiding and I don't mind at all running the same raid content over again. What does get boring is WIPING a million times because people just can't get the fight down.

So killing a boss over again in a timely manner can be fun. When it's no longer fun I can do something else or even take a break and play another game. Don't see anything fundamentally wrong with "endgame".

Dying in the same place, due to the same cause without any alteration of tactics is very, very boring however.

Thats why Diablo had a huge success and it seems noone learned from it....the randomness kept people coming back for more....the dungeons changed all the times.. the items/looks on gear were completely random and unexpected... noone had the same set at the endgame..etc etc..... for example one thing that killed wow for me was knowing exactly what items drom from which boss etc etc.... and im afraid the same will happen with swtor at the end ...which wont be 6 years from now..

Well, we don't know what will be the pace at which BW will feed the game with content, so it's too early to judge it.

the fundamentally wrong thing with 'endgame' is, it requires ENTIRE game to be designed around it, and everything be spent for it. and everyone's gameplay to be b**ches to it. it is not right.

they have the possibility of pumping out better content, faster than wow - since star wars is basically an open ended universe.

wow on the other hand, was running on a grand story like lotro - defeating an arch evil which develops through the story - there is only that much you can pull before the arch evil is defeated. if you dont let it happen at a certain point, people get bored. if you do, you basically exhausted your main story. after that, you would have to resurrect 'old archevils' like that dragon in cataclysm, or invent 'yet another new arch evil'.

that is the bane of the grand story arcs.

if, swtor was based on star wars from episode 4 and on, it would be afflicted with the same too. you cant keep a grand story forever. and you cant continue a story, if you dont take the leap of letting arch evil/grand story to be complete, and starting to tell about the aftermath.

star wars would also work with 'aftermath' actually, even after episode 6. imagine - all that empire, all that resources, organizations, will just go away when the emperor is dead ? definitely not. the 'remnant' thing that passes in expanded universe is logical, even if expanded universe stuff itself is generally crap. the galaxy post episode 6 would be much more chaotic and active than before it.

but swtor is based on 4000 years before all these. so, anything is possible. as long as they do not exhaust the 3500 year or so time period they have in allowance before episode 1, they can do anything. 3500 years, because it would require some time for the galaxy to get into shape for episode 1 through whatever had had happened in between.

You'd have a scintilla of a point if it wasn't for your bombastic presentation.

To the first point. You must have never played a First Person Shooter.

To the next point. How is this different from leveling? A company can only put out so much content. I would rather see a very short "leveling" process, with much more max level content, but you are going to devour the content before a company reasonably expected to put more in, that's just the unfortunate truth. It's not one dude; it's a large team of artists and coders that must put these things together. In short, your expectations are unrealistic.

End game is whatever's left to do when you've hit the level cap, and for some when they've burned through all the content too - you know, like social activities.

For me it's life after grind, not more grind - but you have to give concessions, because there are players who enjoy the grind; live for it even! Point is, it's not your or my game, it's everybody's game, and it's impossible to please everyone with one shoe size.

I think this is why sandbox games have so much more longevity, but even that's a strain, because a decent proportion of players just like the idea of completing the game and moving on. Of course, that's not what MMO publishers want to hear

I think your shift key's broken btw ;-)

The OP is absolutely right about this. However for some reason in MMOs people feel the need to do stuff when they reach the level cap. People pay subscription fees for the endgame, and the developers of the MMO have to constantly add more to the endgame. Endgame endgame endgame.

As I type this I am level 32. By the end of January (most likely) I will have reached level 50 for my first character. Then what am I going to do? Yes, you guessed it. Endgame. I'm going to repeat all of the Flashpoints (+ the new one they will add with the content patch in a couple of weeks) and do both Operations. Then what? Well...

I equate "leveling" to the first 18-25 years (respectively) of life in which you are preparing yourself for the reality of adulthood. Endgame is therefore like adulthood in which you get to spend the next 50 years doing the same repetitive BS until you die.

End Game as it is today is the ruination of the MMO Genre. In a game like SWTOR that gives you an unprecedented high quality of game play and grouping opportunities with Heroic Zones and mid level flashpoints, to see so many come on here and say “I’m 50 now what” just tells me there not here for a real RPG experience.

This idea of the only game that matters is what happens after level cap has to go away, ultimately this Skinner Box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQtDTdDr8vs ) game mechanics will be the ruination of this genre … thank you for that Blizzard.

The leveling game just seems to be the strawberry jam used to hide that little bitter pill of repetitive Skinner Box (tap a lever get a treat) game play and this drive it programs into players will make all efforts at making a higher quality leveling experience lost to them.

It seems to be the same with most MMOs doesn't it.

Wasn't like this with Everquest 1. Took people so long to reach the level cap they had time to push out loads of expanded content. Games are way too easy, but that's how people want them these days... it's a diluted genre.