"This game is new" isnt an accept excuse for the games problems

If you would bother to actually read what i have written, you would note the part in which i state this post is directed at those who make excuses for this game agaisnt constructive criticism or valid concerns. As such my intent was clearly not to list SWTORs flaws or missing features. Perhaps you should take the time to understand and consider what you are responding to before making thoughless remarks.

The third post in this whole thread says most of what I want to, I suggest people read that it's a very valid retort.

However, I want to address one thing. Features.

You don't want to release a MMO with the amount of features that your comparison (WoW) has. If this game was released with all kinds of features like WoW then there will be no room for the hard core players. WoW is designed for a casual player right now and is so extremely watered down it ran a lot of people away from it.

Over time it is going to have more features added in. Look at Rift and Aion for example. Sure Aion was buggy but both of those had a lot of the features already built in, especially Rift. But both failed.

Just have patience, if you are a starwars fan then just give it time. If you want this game to be like your precious wow it will, it will just take some patching and expansions. I personally enjoy the game how it is, it feels like a new game and not a reskinned wow which seems like what everyone that supports your argument wants it to be.

Do you know why Oldsmobile went out of business?
One word, "crap".

And i don't have to be an engineer to know it either.

You know I keep seeing things like this and its sort of a pot and kettle comment.

I cant defend it because I am trying to convince myself that I am enjoying the heck out of a bad game. You can't abuse it then beacuse you are just trying to deny that you hate the heck out of a good game...

Is'nt circular logic fun?

Please, everyone needs to realize that this is an MMO. MMOs are NEVER released bug free and with all features in. MMOs are always in the work, heck, WOW still have patches and updates no? EQ does after his zillions expansions and more than 10 years of existing.

Would it be fair for a single game to release like this? No

But an MMO, yes, most of bugs are going to be fix in next weeks/months and that is fair enough.

Firstly, can you list for me the successful MMOs that you have developed? In the probable case you cannot, ill withhold considering your 'expert' opinion and insights into making a MMO.

Futhermore, features can certainly be added later. It is a pity however that players (subscribers) make or break a MMO. It is also a pity that players are not very forgiving. They will not wait a year for you catch up in features. Seeing as the goal for this game is to make a successful and long lasting MMO, i dont think the "add features later" approach is acceptable.

I nor anyone else owes Bioware any patience. If this game were free or did not have a monthly subscription fee, then certainly they would be entitled. However people subscribing to this game are paying for service and content. If Bioware cannot provide it they will stop playing.
As for why one does not simply 'stop playing if you dont like it' . As i have said, many people including myself WANT to like and play the game, however it is difficult to justify doing so if you find fundamental flaws. Futhermore another concern for many players is that they WANT to play a popular and successful MMO. As such there is a concern not just for ones own enjoyment, but perhaps that of others, in so far as it provides more people to play with.

Quote: Originally Posted by skyvortex

The people that defend it with their last breath aren't actually arguing for the game, they are trying to convince themselves its not as bad as they actually know it is.

Or they know that all of the majour issues are going to be fixed in time, and choose not to whine and complain about it on the forums... especially when there's 93120310392103913209 million topics expressing the same ideas, opinions, hatred, etc.

All-in-all, I think this is a FANTASTIC game. It is absolutely amazing in almost every way.

As far as this game being virtually "unplayable"... no. Not by a long shot! Sorry to say. I have had NO hindering issues playing this game. I spent $150 on the CE, and I will fork over my $15 monthly subscription until the very end!

Welp, I fail to see the point of starting a whole thread about something most people know already.

No, I think you are missing a few

This statement is false. If we run with WoW as the example, lots of the time spent has been spent creating new content for the different expansions -- content that is not used at all any longer (who runs AQ40 these days) but that still took a lot of time to develop. Another thing that does take time is to come up with what ideas work and do the proper research, but once this research has been done other companies can leach off of that work -- it's not patented thank god.


This is absolutely true. MMOs take more time to develop than most games -- but it's still not an excuse to ship an incomplete product.

This holds for any type of development and is part of the business. Again, it's no excuse for shipping an unfinished product.

Of course they do. They should.

No, because that game has done lots of the heavy pulling for you already. You can pick and choose what you want and what you think works without putting as many resources into it -- an LFG tool (which I hope they never add) can be copied quite easily if you just take it as is.

No, it's like buying a car that you start with a crank because that's what we did with early cars.

I agree that we should have paitence and that things will pan out and come along. Howevel, I agree 100% with OP that you shouldn't be making excuses for shipping an unfinished product. All MMOs evolve, but mostly through content. When new game mechanics are added, then these should be tried and tested and they should function completely at launch. We demand this of most other products, but not software for some weird reason.

With that said, and I state this in most my posts, I am enjoying the game very much. But you most certainly CAN demand more of a game released today than 8 years ago. The industry has moved on since then.

wow set a standard for blizzard not the genre. and they themselves failed to deliver that standard over multiple expansions, they themselves even admited that.

while udluar their finest raid came after a long period of a reused naxx it was still in it's own right the best raid to grace that game, thats because it had lore and quests dating back years with dungeons preceding it in classic wow like uldum...or what ever that one is in loch modan. oh and they aren't doing a raid on that scale again so what exactly is there to look forward to in wow when it's most glorious time has long since passed.

wow has some great aspects that can not be denied the user interface(default or modded) and reaction of the characters is nigh on perfect.

however it seriously lacks the rpg element of the genre, that has been a major thorn for many a player joining the game from other games that have done it far far better.

now wow did get the mmo part right then they added cross realm lfd...and for some that caused serious problems whether you seen them or not does not mean they weren't there.

like it or loathe it tera could have brought a whole new dimension to the genre with it's non target combat, i was really hoping it would have been better than it was, as a game it had the potential to truly do some good for the genre but some additional features added somewhat ruined the game for pvpers and pvers alike.

gw2 will be dropping the whole trinity system so again we'll have a game coming that could either help to revolutionize the genre or find it's self stuck with a system that isn't workable for top teir gaming.

wow presents nothing new even it's so called new features aren't exactly ground breaking, and mists of pandaria is offering a side game that was invented in japan in 1995 clearly not a new feature or a feature that many regard as needed or wanted...some do obviously but then we wonder what the hell they are doing spending that much time developing that instead of epic raids that are trully memorable.

i don't compare swtor to wow why? swtor has rpg wow does not, it's been a long time since wow had a story worth telling or paying attention to.