You said you want to balance all classes and make the DPS become the around the same.

 

balance / madness is pretty much the lowest dps spec right now and there is no way this spec can break 4K with 186 gears like other classes make it right now.

 

You said damage over time spec have to do more DPS than brust spec in boss fight but right now TK / lighting spec which is burst spec can out number madness/balance easily.

 

Right now every sage/sorc are force to play TK/lighting spec I am a balance/madness fan always play it since EC HM so it make me feel bad that my favorite spec is broken.

 

sorry for my English if it wrong, English isn't my first language.

You said you want to balance all classes and make the DPS become the around the same.

 

balance / madness is pretty much the lowest dps spec right now and there is no way this spec can break 4K with 186 gears like other classes make it right now.

 

You said damage over time spec have to do more DPS than brust spec in boss fight but right now TK / lighting spec which is burst spec can out number madness/balance easily.

 

Right now every sage/sorc are force to play TK/lighting spec I am a balance/madness fan always play it since EC HM so it make me feel bad that my favorite spec is broken.

 

sorry for my English if it wrong, English isn't my first language.

 

Well with how disciplines are now easy to balance, I do think Balance/Madness is going to be looked at in 3.1. Alongside the overperformers (IO/Assault, Tactics/AP, maybe concealment/scrapper) and other possible underperformers (Gunnery/Arsenal)

lightning too tough 4 ya?

Since sages don't have any DCDs by design, it looks like they decided "Hey, balance have heavy selfheal, but we can't cut their defences. Let's cut their damage instead!" There is logic in it, but it's not good.

Damnit, this is how you break warzones. Sages of both specs are outperforming in terms of damage.

 

Besides, aren't there almost always adds in pve fights? Dots are good on multiple targets. Unless most fights are patchwerk style.

Edited December 16, 2014 by lpsmash

Madness is hard to balance because its one of the superior specs in pvp currently.

 

Just play lighting until its fixed or another class.

Besides, aren't there almost always adds in pve fights? Dots are good on multiple targets. Unless most fights are patchwerk style.

That matters more for leveling than operations. Trash in operations is just that, trash. During boss fights there usually aren't any significant group of adds that don't die in a few hits. Madness should do more damage over time than Lightning, but that's not the case any longer. Lightning is the best burst and long term damage spec.

lightning too tough 4 ya?

 

Lightning is almost insultingly easy to play now that procs get highlighted. It's not "Press F To Win" or anything in PvE but it isn't that far away

Balance just needs a damage buff to Disturbance and Leech. At the moment it's barely better to use Disturbance than TKT which seems silly. I guess the big problem is that a substantial boost to Disturbance would mean that a balance sale's Disturbance would close to a TK gust. Might need to reduce the Base healing on Leech to stop it giving excessive HP transfer but that's not too much of a problem. They couldn't buff the dots or FIB though as that would up the AoE damage too much (which, to be honest is fine with dot spread and quake).

Lightning is almost insultingly easy to play now that procs get highlighted. It's not "Press F To Win" or anything in PvE but it isn't that far away

 

Seeing as not everyone is parsing equally well in Lightning (or even close!), I think the evidence is against you here. Is it easy to get passable numbers? Yes, but then it always has been. It's still exactly as challenging as it used to be to get the maximum DPS out of the class.

There are several issues with madness which i will try to highlight.

 

First lets look at what the spec lost,

30% surge bonus on dots

30% surge bonus on deathfield

25% passive buff to Forcelighting vs targets effected by creeping terror

lightning burns 60% proc from lightning strike ( 1 more reason its currently a dps loss)

10% dmg from wrath

10% dot dmg from deathmark

 

Now compare to the gains

 

new internal dmg ability on 12sec cd

1% more dot dmg

10% aoe buff

5% force dmg buff

alot more passive self healing

15% dot dmg vs targets sub 30%

 

there are others, but these are the ones i highlight being the problems, so lets look at them in more detail as to good change/bad change, how it effects madness on both pvp and pve perspective.

 

So, the surge bonus loss, yes it sucks, but its not spec breaking, infact, with the new dotspread its probably justified since even now as the spec is madness has probably the highest AOE potential. so we wont be getting that back, also with the changes to self healing scaling on damage done, which is already out of hand.

 

force lightning nerf, i can live with, we lose 25% passive dmg from before, but as i think people have worked out, the reduction in cd to 2sec nets about 13% dmg increase VS the 3sec cast, so we dont lose too much there either

 

lightning burns - this i think is pretty big, its a double edge nerf in the way that force leech has a 12sec cd and only 60% change to proc it, and with the removal of lightning strike from this ability makes LS even less desirable than before

 

Wrath nerf - this also adds to the lightning strike woes,

 

deathmark reduction - again, see above about surge bonus, this i can also live with since it would only add to inflated aoe dmg, and number padding in WZs, and even more passive healing

 

Force leech - great spell, love it, but lets face it, the healing part, way too much, CD is abit out of sync with everything else also but meh, theres probably ways round it

 

Self healing in general - really nice that they changed this to a % of dmg done, scales with gear, good choice, but right now, the healing i feel is far to strong, especially if we want to see overall dmg increase for us in the future

 

execute phase - ok, we all been wanting it for a long time, but its pretty half arsed, just 15% dot dmg? really?! talk about a small bone, when compared to our Sin brothers double execute phase, a REAL execute on 6secs, aswell as dot+deathfield ( really dunno what they were thinking when making madness/hatred sins, its by far the least similar joint spec of the lot)

 

So to summarize,

 

Too much self healing

lightning burns is rubbish

lightning strike is rubbish

execute phase is meh

 

what i would like to see change? put simply, the devs obviously want, and have always wanted us to use wrath for lightning strike when crushing darkness/demolish is on CD, and i personally would love to use it, and make the priorities abit more interesting, but everytime they fail to make it worth while,

 

- Buff wrath to 50% - simple fix, would make lightning strike viable, aswell as giving demolish a boost,,

- Get rid of lightning burns, its rubbish, its RNG and the bonus dmg it gives its crap anyway

- reduce self healing by at least 33% overall probably more, since if we get buffed, and our dps goes up, so will the healing, and its already too much

- either add deathfield to the execute phase, or scrap it completely for a flat 5-10% dmg increase to all attacks sub 30%

 

Just my thoughts, ive more than likely missed things aswell but these are the most obvious problems that stand out to me

Seeing as not everyone is parsing equally well in Lightning (or even close!), I think the evidence is against you here. Is it easy to get passable numbers? Yes, but then it always has been. It's still exactly as challenging as it used to be to get the maximum DPS out of the class.

 

also, as to this, i feel i must point out that, even with the changes over the years, lightning is still a very proccy spec,

30% chance to proc a second strike from, thundering blast, lightning bolt, lightning flash, chain lightning, and crushing darkness ticks, coupled with the fact that these procs tie into the reduction of polarity shift, unless you parse all the time for 10min + dps is always gonna fluctuate ALOT, thats like what, 80%+ of your dps that has a proc to it? which you have no control over at all.

reduce self healing by at least 33% overall probably more, since if we get buffed, and our dps goes up, so will the healing, and its already too much

 

totally agree we have too many self heal that way too powerful in PVP, so to make it balance they nerf our dmg and that totally ruin PVE players

Well with how disciplines are now easy to balance, I do think Balance/Madness is going to be looked at in 3.1. Alongside the overperformers (IO/Assault, Tactics/AP, maybe concealment/scrapper) and other possible underperformers (Gunnery/Arsenal)

 

Yep, IO is the uncrowned Dummy killer spec....other than that, no.

Yep, IO is the uncrowned Dummy killer spec....other than that, no.

 

Of our two IO mercs they play it on 8/10 fights unless we need a armor debuff.

Of our two IO mercs they play it on 8/10 fights unless we need a armor debuff.

 

I use it on 9...I think. So?

lightning too tough 4 ya?

 

NICE INPUT

 

are you retarded or 5 years old?

I use it on 9...I think. So?

 

I think his point is that the guild that went so far as to run pure bounty hunters for the revan fight so they didn't have to deal with knockbacks they are that dedicated to optimizing damage outputs decides that in 80% of the fights IO is a better spec, and the fact they are bringing 2 of these into their Primary HM Raid team means that IO is one of (if not the) best DPS spec(s) in the game. By far.

well this went off track LOL

I think his point is that the guild that went so far as to run pure bounty hunters for the revan fight (1)so they didn't have to deal with knockbacks they are that dedicated to optimizing damage outputs decides that (2)in 80% of the fights IO is a better spec, and the fact they are bringing 2 of these into their Primary HM Raid team means that IO is one of (if not the) best DPS spec(s) in the game. (3)By far.

 

(So I don't actually know what and why Zorz did, I base my response solely on your post)

 

1. You said it right there, they wanted knockback protection and not a lot of class can do that...

2. IO is better in most fight than Arsenal because most of the time you can get away by tuneling the boss and Arsenal sucks as hell to begin with.

 

3. And my main point, what I always ment to say is that yes IO is good, but I don't think it's overperforming in EVERY way. It has as many flaws as strength. Try playing it in PVP for example.

I use it on 9...I think. So?

 

Misunderstood your comment took it as dummy parsing. Thought you were saying IO is only strong on a dummy.

 

I think his point is that the guild that went so far as to run pure bounty hunters for the revan fight so they didn't have to deal with knockbacks they are that dedicated to optimizing damage outputs decides that in 80% of the fights IO is a better spec, and the fact they are bringing 2 of these into their Primary HM Raid team means that IO is one of (if not the) best DPS spec(s) in the game. By far.

 

Our 8 BH comp for HM Revan is out of necessity we feel. When another guild kills it we'll release the videos ( Hates You was 8 BH ) and the community can see why.

 

IO is by far the #1 spec currently, we happened to hit the lottery and have two of the best Mercs. Our 8 BH comp only yolo, raulos, and smugglin don't normally main the class.

 

Nothing will beat two tunneling IO mercs on any boss and the only encounters Mari/Fasc play Arsenal is Underlurker & Revanite Commanders.

(So I don't actually know what and why Zorz did, I base my response solely on your post)

 

1. You said it right there, they wanted knockback protection and not a lot of class can do that...

2. IO is better in most fight than Arsenal because most of the time you can get away by tuneling the boss and Arsenal sucks as hell to begin with.

 

3. And my main point, what I always ment to say is that yes IO is good, but I don't think it's overperforming in EVERY way. It has as many flaws as strength. Try playing it in PVP for example.

 

And in addition to what Milas said, it is common knowledge that PTs are the best class in terms of translating from a dummy to a raid (no channels, easy target swapping, damage is actually buffed from the outgoing raid damage as opposed to nerfed, very good range), so if they were stacking BHs entirely for Hydraulics (which they are), wouldn't it have been better to bring multiple PTs instead? In theory, yes. In practice? IO Mercs are still better, as stated by Milas.

Lightning is almost insultingly easy to play now that procs get highlighted. It's not "Press F To Win" or anything in PvE but it isn't that far away

 

In the PvP forum, there are quite a lot of people who have problems with Ligning :

 

This is what happened twice just few minutes ago in quesh hutball we were trying to kill ball carrier (vanguard tank - hard to kill) almost whole group and 3 sages raped our team with force quakes in 5-6 seconds (working as intented) they didnt have to use Telekinetic Wave in first one and we watched they scoring behind the curtain. It was gonna happen 4 more times but everyone left the match since it wasnt fun playing like that.

So some will say interrupt sages. So i will leave ball carrier alone to score goal and i will try to kill 3 sages. With new changes they are unroutable with force speed they heal themself easily and their barrier makes them full health in seconds so i need at least 20 sec. (if he is a bad player) to kill a sage so i will ask ball carrier wait for me not move anywhere while i try to kill sage.

And someone said about orbital strike is nerfed not because it was powerful since it was staying there after casted. So if you are right so why mechanics are the same but damage is reduced?

Give force storm/quake 1 min cd. Hutball is unplayable with sage sorcerers atm.

 

Source : http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7892412&postcount=19

 

And this, too :

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=76

Well with how disciplines are now easy to balance, I do think Balance/Madness is going to be looked at in 3.1. Alongside the overperformers (IO/Assault, Tactics/AP, maybe concealment/scrapper) and other possible underperformers (Gunnery/Arsenal)

 

Would taking the 25% gimp off of Force Lightning do anything drastic? Or incorporating Leach into Wrath?

Edited December 29, 2014 by MrEndymion

Would taking the 25% gimp off of Force Lightning do anything drastic? Or incorporating Leach into Wrath?

Taking the 25% reduction off lightning would mean that it did more dps than a buffed lightning strike, which would make lightning strike pretty much irrelevant. The best way of fixing it (IMO) would be to reduce the health absorbed by leech and increasing the damage done there and increasing the damage done by lightning strike. The issue with increasing damage done by lightning strike would be if it were buffed too much and ended up being better than lightning bolt (when buffed). I would expect that a 10-15% boost in the base damage of those abilities would get you somewhere close to the numbers currently being hit by other classes, although the rotation is still a little out of sync (and gets worse if you hit alacrity at the wrong time and reduce the CD on some abilities and not others or increase the ticks of some dots).

Edited December 29, 2014 by ChroniKill