It's not Corporate Labs, but the other one--the one where the final boss is a bunch of hard drives you burn, then the dude with spinning attack drops down and you kill him (it's making me feel slightly stoopid that I can't remember this).

Since forever, I've always dodged spinning attack, and the way it's been tanked in my memory is to sort of drag the boss around in a circle, since the tank should also be running away from spinning attack.

Recently, though, in groups with appropriately-geared healers (read: not overgeared) and myself tanking, I've seen Marauders who insist on standing in stupid, then demanding I stop moving the boss around. The Marauders generally either die or come darn close to dying every time due to standing in stupid, but I've heard it from 2 people now: "stop kiting the boss!"

So, what's the deal? Is this now a tank'n'spank and let the healer just deal with the groupwide damage? Am I moving him around too much? I'd appreciate some input as I am wary of listening to advice from Marauders...

If the Mara is sucky enough that they're not tanking, then they should shut up.

If they're good enough to withstand his spin, they'll have the aggro themselves and wont need to ask.

If the Mara is sucky enough that they're not tanking, then they should shut up.

 

If they're good enough to withstand his spin, they'll have the aggro themselves and wont need to ask.

You do realize how wrong this is, right? DPS should never be tanking. It kind of sucks to be mDPS on a boss that is best kited, but that's how it goes.

It's not Corporate Labs, but the other one--the one where the final boss is a bunch of hard drives you burn, then the dude with spinning attack drops down and you kill him (it's making me feel slightly stoopid that I can't remember this).

 

Since forever, I've always dodged spinning attack, and the way it's been tanked in my memory is to sort of drag the boss around in a circle, since the tank should also be running away from spinning attack.

 

Recently, though, in groups with appropriately-geared healers (read: not overgeared) and myself tanking, I've seen Marauders who insist on standing in stupid, then demanding I stop moving the boss around. The Marauders generally either die or come darn close to dying every time due to standing in stupid, but I've heard it from 2 people now: "stop kiting the boss!"

 

So, what's the deal? Is this now a tank'n'spank and let the healer just deal with the groupwide damage? Am I moving him around too much? I'd appreciate some input as I am wary of listening to advice from Marauders...

But isn't this boss always been tank'n'spank? Becouse i don't see any reason for tank to actually kite him.

He will pull team in aoe range in ANY case. And if team members are stupid enough to stay in range... Well... There is nothing you can do about it. Exept for healer of course He can heal them or not

But isn't this boss always been tank'n'spank? Becouse i don't see any reason for tank to actually kite him.

He will pull team in aoe range in ANY case. And if team members are stupid enough to stay in range... Well... There is nothing you can do about it. Exept for healer of course He can heal them or not

That's just it--as tank I move away during spinning attack, and the boss follows me. That means that I'm slowly kiting him around the room, because spinning attack happens rather often. Should I just be standing there and soaking the spinning attack?

You do realize how wrong this is, right? DPS should never be tanking. It kind of sucks to be mDPS on a boss that is best kited, but that's how it goes.

IRONY, Jackson, IRONY.

Learn the rules of playing Marauder. Remember: 2 sabers=double the leadership ability!

I feel privileged that the Marauders allow me to tank.

Back to the subject, though--MBFHL can remember learning this FP with me (remember wiping over and over again in Corporate Labs?) and we ALWAYS kited the boss slowly around the room so that everyone (tank included!) could get out of his AoE. Now that most folks are overgeared for this FP, should I just stand stock still and let the healer try and heal through that AoE?

You do realize how wrong this is, right? DPS should never be tanking. It kind of sucks to be mDPS on a boss that is best kited, but that's how it goes.

He's joking about how maras/sents always act like a tank and steal aggro and stuff. !0 rules of marauders and all that.

That's just it--as tank I move away during spinning attack, and the boss follows me. That means that I'm slowly kiting him around the room, because spinning attack happens rather often. Should I just be standing there and soaking the spinning attack?

Umm... YEAH.

You are tank, don't forget. You are designed to take damage. Also as a tank you must provide some tactical advantage for your team (i doubt that snipers, sorcs or mercs will be really grateful for kiting so simple boss).

Anyway AoE damage is not so high for a tank as you speak of it.

Basically, most useful thing you can do is stick your back to the wall (no knockbacks) and use DCD to prevent damage during "rage" phase (i don't remember how it called).

I could never forget the countless hours spend in CZ HM FPs when they first came out. Our first taste of progression.

Doing this nowadays, I certainly treat it as a tank'n'spank. But I wouldn't say anything if the tank wanted to play it safe

When he is channeling the spinning attack you just need to move out of range and go back in when he has done it. What's hard about this? No kiting needed at all. Does BW have to nerf this boss as well? Dps need no healing here and you have to be special to die.

I would rather BW NOT nerf this boss, plz.

Next time I do this fight, I'll try doing it tank'n'spank, then. Seems like that's an accepted method.

Thanks for the tips, y'all!

For once i must ask that "what is this fight part" you reffer in ending of Czerka Core Meltdown??

there are 2 bosses early on that can cause some challenge depending on grp. But the mobs near left console kill more ppl in the room before than the "Awsome" fleshraider security system

EDIT: Maybe 2 pulls and spinning jumps... heal does what he/she does. Trooppas hold the line, consulars speed away, slingers can roll if they choose. Others can pop some def cd:s and so on... That fight is fatal only when ure not paying attention or are slacking with dmg output. Even in hm it's 1 minute fight.

1. Kiting the boss as a tank is NOT needed.

Kiting even wrecks other things like DPS output and overall predictiness. As a tank you take hardly any damage from the spinning attack and rotating cooldowns is easy enough. So do yourself a favor and stop kiting this boss since its a pain to dps or heal if you do so.

2. DPS doesn't always need to run off.

Depending the cooldowns of dps'ers its sometimes better to just stay put and burn this boss down. If DPS is good enough you will get less spins.

In your case the marauders should NOT have taken that much damage provided they use cooldowns (On my sentinel I use saber ward, than rebuke + force camo. If needed I'll pop trans and/or gbtf). Any healer can heal this damage by using AoE healing.

3. little tip

In the previous phase bring the adds up to the next barrel (the one you need to transport or leap at). As shadow be carefull since most people will be in shock of such a daunting move of the tank and forget they now can dps the core AND the adds :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Last but not least ...... This boss is a really easy tanky spanky fight which can only be wiped on if the group is really bad.

Umm... YEAH.

You are tank, don't forget. You are designed to take damage.

Im not sure if this is another running joke but I find that statement somewhat false. While it is true that tanks are designed to handle damage the best I think having that as a goal is very wrong. if anything the tank has two objectives hold aggro (and take what ever dmg that brings with it) and work towards survival, so I would rather say your work should be 100% towards making healers job easier, the dps have the same job but to do dmg instead of keep aggro

Since this is a really simple and in many ways very avoidable dmg the goal should be just that. What I do is hold direction key until cast is finished and then quickly run back in, I must admit it has been months since I tanked but I did not experience much kiting while doing this perhaps boss moves a few meters away but over all not much. You could take the stance that tank can handle the dmg and not many heals are needed to recover but that assumes perfect execution on all other players side. Most likely it is all strangers and I have no way of knowing their ability to avoid the aoe. so unless I am the healer and it is my filth I must clean up I always assume everyone will get caught and if I avoid one less heal will be needed

As far as wrecking dps I must call bull****. Ranged dps should be least affected, they have 30-35m to work with and staying at the edge of that is useless, you will have to interrupt casts if boss moves a few meters and most importantly you will be pulled, no use it dashing 30m away when spin attack comes, just enough to avoid the attack. Melee might have it worse though but they have the luxury of more instants, unless you are a guardian, then I weep for you

And finaly please do not come with these "it is super easy and you suck if this poses any problem" Sure if you have the experience and the gear it might be easy but we all have to start somewhere and anything can happen in a pug, regardless if you can cheese mechanics many of these issues warrants an discussion, ignorance and gear overpowering is not something we should enforce.

Im not sure if this is another running joke but I find that statement somewhat false. While it is true that tanks are designed to handle damage the best I think having that as a goal is very wrong. if anything the tank has two objectives hold aggro (and take what ever dmg that brings with it) and work towards survival, so I would rather say your work should be 100% towards making healers job easier, the dps have the same job but to do dmg instead of keep aggro

 

Since this is a really simple and in many ways very avoidable dmg the goal should be just that. What I do is hold direction key until cast is finished and then quickly run back in, I must admit it has been months since I tanked but I did not experience much kiting while doing this perhaps boss moves a few meters away but over all not much. You could take the stance that tank can handle the dmg and not many heals are needed to recover but that assumes perfect execution on all other players side. Most likely it is all strangers and I have no way of knowing their ability to avoid the aoe. so unless I am the healer and it is my filth I must clean up I always assume everyone will get caught and if I avoid one less heal will be needed

 

As far as wrecking dps I must call bull****. Ranged dps should be least affected, they have 30-35m to work with and staying at the edge of that is useless, you will have to interrupt casts if boss moves a few meters and most importantly you will be pulled, no use it dashing 30m away when spin attack comes, just enough to avoid the attack. Melee might have it worse though but they have the luxury of more instants, unless you are a guardian, then I weep for you

 

And finaly please do not come with these "it is super easy and you suck if this poses any problem" Sure if you have the experience and the gear it might be easy but we all have to start somewhere and anything can happen in a pug, regardless if you can cheese mechanics many of these issues warrants an discussion, ignorance and gear overpowering is not something we should enforce.

I find your lack of tanking experience disturbing.

I find your lack of tanking experience disturbing.

I am not saying I am a great tank but i have dabbled enough to know things and more importantly I have tanked this fp many times without complaints or problems. Nontheless if I am wrong please enlighten me and break this cycle of ignorance I am allegedly stuck in.

I am not saying I am a great tank but i have dabbled enough to know things and more importantly I have tanked this fp many times without complaints or problems. Nontheless if I am wrong please enlighten me and break this cycle of ignorance I am allegedly stuck in.

Yes, yes, whatever you say...

I am not saying I am a great tank but i have dabbled enough to know things and more importantly I have tanked this fp many times without complaints or problems. Nontheless if I am wrong please enlighten me and break this cycle of ignorance I am allegedly stuck in.

Nah you are not wrong about the tanking part. A tank should indeed avoid taking damage which is avoidable (for example like the raptus deadly slash).

But as a tank you also should weigh in other factors as positioning.

Personally I find in this case its more important to keep the fight clean without moving so that dps and healers always will know where the boss is. Mostly sinse the damage of the spin is almost non existant for a tank (even a lower geared one). Not sure how much I tend to take, will watch for it next time but its not much.

Having said that. This bossfight is not really worth debating over to much. It might be easier for DPS if the tank stays put but in the end the differences are small.

Nah you are not wrong about the tanking part. A tank should indeed avoid taking damage which is avoidable (for example like the raptus deadly slash).

But as a tank you also should weigh in other factors as positioning.

 

Personally I find in this case its more important to keep the fight clean without moving so that dps and healers always will know where the boss is. Mostly sinse the damage of the spin is almost non existant for a tank (even a lower geared one). Not sure how much I tend to take, will watch for it next time but its not much.

 

Having said that. This bossfight is not really worth debating over to much. It might be easier for DPS if the tank stays put but in the end the differences are small.

Thanks, man.

This is what i tryed to say.

Some tanks stand against a wall taking all damage. I wouldn't recommend this; they takes unnecessary damage. The efforts to heal them could be missing to heal the rest if the group if needed.

Anyway, the dps would move to evade the attack and return to the boss. It's easy for a marauder to leap on the boss, whichever the tank stood or ran, so I don't see why he argued exactly.

But as a tank you also should weigh in other factors as positioning.

Of course, but it can be addressed by moving in a predictible pattern.

I've experienced that fight as Commando, Scoundrel, Shadow, and Sniper, both as DPS and tank or healer for the first three. (Might also have tanked as Powertech, not sure.) A few notes:

-The Vigilant doesn't pull EVERYONE, just those who are 10m or more away from him. This means that as soon as melee DPS and the tank see ranged/healer being grappled (or hear the characteristic sound effect), they can start running away, giving them about a 2-second head start.

-Every class has some way of avoiding the sweep. Troopers can Hold The Line out (or avoid the grapple entirely if they time Hold The Line properly) half of the time. Consulars can Force Speed out about half the time. Additionally, Sages can eat one sweep with Force Barrier and Shadows can Resilience at least one sweep (if tanking, you can get half of them with Resilience). Scoundrels can Scamper out every time, and Gunslingers can alternate between Hunker Down and Hightail It. Knights don't have quite as good an ability to avoid the sweep, but they're always going to be within that magical 10m where they don't get grappled.

-For that matter, if people get grappled in and the group is low on health, a Sentinel can rescue the run by hitting Transcendence. Sure, you're wasting stacks that would otherwise have gone to Zen, but you lose less DPS by wasting stacks than you do by allowing someone to die.

-For the love of all things holy, slow DPS on the last core. Unless you're standing in floorcandy, once you kill the adds there's no incoming damage or anything to worry about. Give your healer some time to top everyone off, refresh Slow-Release Medpac/Trauma Probe/Force Armor, regen energy/ammo/Force, and build some stacks of Upper Hand/Supercharge/Resplendence. It's a DPS race, especially after The Vigilant's soft enrage at 50%, but there's no reason to go in at low health.

-If a Trooper is slow getting out of the sweep, Hold The Line will at least prevent the stun, if not the damage.

-When a core on the upper level is destroyed (before the boss drops down), everyone gets hit for a big tick of Tech damage. Resilience is your friend here for Shadows, Smugglers should pop Defense Screen when the core reaches 30%, Sages can bubble the group, and Sentinels low on health can survive if they time Guarded By The Force properly. Timing on that stuff depends on your group's DPS, so try to get a feel for it. Preventing that kind of damage will make your healer happy.

-As a Shadow tank it is very hard to get a Telekinetic Throw channel off to maintain Shadow Protection stacks, due to all the stuns and knockbacks. To instantly refresh your stacks via the Shadow Wrap talent, hit Force Cloak and then taunt the boss back. It helps to do this while the boss is casting the sweep so that he doesn't have a chance to leap to a DPS before the taunt hits.

-Save your long-cooldown defensive abilities, when possible, for the Emergency Protocols soft-enrage. That means Saber Ward/Deflection/Reactive Shield for tanks, that means Supercharge Cells for a Commando healer, that means Scrambling Field for Gunslingers, that means Force Barrier for Sages. Offensive cooldowns also help here by shortening the amount of time The Vigilant is alive after he boosts his damage; Inspiration should be used here and only here in the fight.

I really don't see the need to kite ...

Basically you tank him where you can, enduring the constant knockbacks and CCs while the dps do their stuff, then he starts casting his aoe attack and either you run out of it or you use a DCD to minimize it, but either way the boss does not need to move because if you avoided it, you can be back in melee range as soon as the attack is finished casting.