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Why this game needs more Looking For Group support


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The game does need one badly. I've spent 3 days trying to do the FP for my main's level range as a Healer. I've tried advertising in trade, the planet the FP's range is at, Fleet, the Flashpoint custom channel and nothing. DPS and Tank alts I get near instant invites but as a healer I can be waiting for days for an invite. It's like FFXI all over again (which by the way is 10 years old and has a far superior LFG system than a modern day MMO)

 

You know how I finally got that FP done? Got 3 bored Lv50 friends I roleplay with to "help" by facerolling the sodding thing.

 

I suppose that this is the "social experience" that Bioware wants up to experience. I mean, anything to avoid being like WoW right even though half of the classes are directly ripped from it? \o/

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This game needs a lot of improvements on its LFG system. Most of the people arguing against it seem to be simply narrow minded fools who think that because they play in prime time and have a couple of friends they can play with that the rest of us should be the same. Some of us work odd hours or have other commitments that mean we play at different times, or our server doesn't have as much population. Sitting in the fleet and typing "LFM Foundry" repeatedly isn't social, its asinine and shouldn't be a requirement to enjoying the game.

 

The currentl LFG system isn't obvious enough and isn't referenced anywhere in the game to direct people to it. The search is exremely limited and the window is too small for a decent LFG note.

 

It needs fixing.

Edited by KaiHeilos
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This game needs a lot of improvements on its LFG system. Most of the people arguing against it seem to be simply narrow minded fools who think that because they play in prime time and have a couple of friends they can play with that the rest of us should be the same. Some of us work odd hours or have other commitments that mean we play at different times, or our server doesn't have as much population. Sitting in the fleet and typing "LFM Foundry" repeatedly isn't social, its asinine and shouldn't be a requirement to enjoying the game.

 

The currentl LFG system isn't obvious enough and isn't referenced anywhere in the game to direct people to it. The search is exremely limited and the window is too small for a decent LFG note.

 

It needs fixing.

 

Sorry i can get a group at 1 am at 8 am and at 5pm local time aka CET...

 

if you cannot find 1 person to play a flashpoint with you you simply suck at social part of the game.... all you need is to be 2 lvls above instance req aka quest needs to be grind and find another whose quest is also green then companions will do roughly 90% of player DPS...

 

problem SOLVED.

 

but ofcourse if you want to do orange quests you need to be 4 man party.

 

Game needs GLOBAL LFG channel ill agree up to that point.

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if you cannot find 1 person to play a flashpoint with you you simply suck at social part of the game.... all you need is to be 2 lvls above instance req aka quest needs to be grind and find another whose quest is also green then companions will do roughly 90% of player DPS...

 

problem SOLVED.

 

So make sure that I overgear and overlevel the flashpoint and hope there is someone else out their doing the same, great solution, you're amazing sir.

 

/sarcasm

 

There's no reason why this game shouldn't have a decent, working LFG system that's easy to use and find. Just a bunch of people going "I can get a group so everyone should be able to".

Edited by KaiHeilos
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Answer me this.

 

Why is a LFG tool so bad? What is there to lose from implementing something (anything) that makes finding a group less painstaking. I'm obviously not alone in my opinions, and my sub is just as valuable to Bioware as yours. Why does the mere suggestion of making finding a group easier get met with so much hatred?

 

Obviously we have different opinions of what is and isn't fun.

 

And obviously I'm not alone in my opinions either.

 

My personal opposition to the LFG tool stems from the fact that it doesn't produce any better results than spamming the /1.

 

Point and case is WoW. I drag them out because there was a very real problem they strove to deal with when they created the LFG tool: people (especially low-levels) having difficulty finding a group. In theory, it was a good solution. It would put 3 dps, a tank, and a healer in a group and also cut down on waiting to find that elusive 5th man.

 

The problem that arose fairly quickly, however, was that those on low-population servers still wouldn't have low wait times due to the amount of people queuing was just as low. Additionally, there was a huge imbalance in the DPS:Healer:Tank ratios (hint: healers were in short supply, tanks doubly so).

 

This was the reason they implemented a cross-server LFG tool. Low pop servers could be matched with high pop servers, everyone wins. Except creating this level of anonymity led to the steady degradation of the social order in game (it became log on, press I, click "LFG", wait, get group, don't talk, just finish the instance, get gear, do it again and again and again and again and again and again until you were up to par with the people who were NOT using the LFG tool, be they pvp or pve)

 

My point, tl;dr, is the LFG is a slippery slope. Sure, it's a great idea to be able to automate the boring tasks. But once you automate those, you start to automate everything else. And why would I want to play a game where I don't do anything on my own, the game helps me do it?

 

I don't. That's why I quit WoW. I quit to join TOR so I didn't have to put up with that ****.

 

And that's why I am vehemently opposed to the LFG tool.

 

Say what you will about social order degrading or not, but the proof is every time you log onto WoW, there are hundreds just jumping around Org/SW waiting for queues to pop and nothing but trolls talking in /1. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to accept the spamming of general being full of "LFG Athiss" if it isn't instead full of "If they call it legend of zelda, how come the main character is named link?"

Edited by Falkelord
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Say what you will about social order degrading or not, but the proof is every time you log onto WoW, there are hundreds just jumping around Org/SW waiting for queues to pop and nothing but trolls talking in /1.

 

We already have this on the Imperial Fleet because everyone is forced to go sit there if they want a decent chance of getting a FP group without already having a bunch of friends to group with.

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We already have this on the Imperial Fleet because everyone is forced to go sit there if they want a decent chance of getting a FP group without already having a bunch of friends to group with.

 

The people spamming the IF are the same people who want a LFG tool because they're used to having groups come to them instead of actively seeking a group.

 

I haven't had any problems (and neither have several of the people I work with) getting groups even at 4 in the morning.

 

If you spam chat, people are going to ignore you. If you directly ask people who are located around the FP or even people on a planet with similar level ranges, you're going to find someone that wants to do it.

 

And if you're not, you need to keep trying.

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wee need a lfg, im not social, i dont like being in guild, i wont write on a game chat, i refuse to use the /who lfg tool because i am a troll and i espect to do anything in a game in a single click momentum. since i dont like questing either, and pvp is broken i see that lfg will save this game because ppl will unsubscrive really fast and go play pandaaaaaaaas

 

 

:confused:

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Sorry i can get a group at 1 am at 8 am and at 5pm local time aka CET...

 

if you cannot find 1 person to play a flashpoint with you you simply suck at social part of the game.... all you need is to be 2 lvls above instance req aka quest needs to be grind and find another whose quest is also green then companions will do roughly 90% of player DPS...

 

problem SOLVED.

 

but ofcourse if you want to do orange quests you need to be 4 man party.

 

Game needs GLOBAL LFG channel ill agree up to that point.

 

Another fantastic solution.

 

So the intended way of playing this game is to overgear everything and play it with companions rather than people. That's REALLY doing well socially in this game.

 

- Aside - I'm seeing a pattern emerging here. It seems all of the people who hate the idea of anything that will make the grouping process even slightly easier back up their arguments with "on my server" or "I don't have too much trouble" or "Well, at level 50 you won't find it as hard".

 

Unfortunately, that doesnt qualify as good reasons not to have a LFG system.

 

At level 50, most people that me and my friend group with have never seen a flash point before or are scared even to group for one because of the abuse they sometimes get due to not knowing how to play their class. Why don't they know how to play their class? Because they never had the opportunity to practice in a group. First time tanks in Hard Mode have a tough time learning how to do it, especially when you consider that a lot of players are Star Wars fans, not MMO players. Many haven't played an MMO before and are unfamiliar with terms. But obviously I must be a WoW kid and an easymoder for suggesting something so outrageous.

 

Some back their arguments up with "its a waste of development time".

 

Sorry, but a couple of LFG channels would take minutes of development time to implement. Class flexibility could be done in similar time just by adding a "swap spec" button. An actual working tool could take a while - but it could be for a future patch. I can live with some minor bugs, for the sake of an easier time grouping up.

 

So yeah - I've not heard one single hater give a valid reason why a LFG tool should not be implemented.

Edited by Introvertus
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It sounds good yes, but I do not agree with what that post said about it being easier to find a group while leveling up. Yes, it was until about level 30. Then it's almost impossible, at least on my server.

 

In prime time we have maybe 20 people on Taris. How many of those do you think are tanks and healers? Almost every group I've been in, I've put an large effort into creating it and patiently finding tanks and healers. Lately however, no amount of effort has been enough. In the past 3 days on one planet, I managed to join one group for 4 player heroics. Tanking failed horribly in that group, the healer got eaten a few times and left. No replacements to be found.

 

I find it insulting that someone says it's not too rough to find a group while leveling. Yes it is. It's insane. Let's not even mention flashpoints. I just gave up on those entirely.

 

Anyway thanks OP for some well thought out points. Ultimately I'm just glad they promised to do something about it.

Edited by thecoffeecup
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It sounds good yes, but I do not agree with what that post said about it being easier to find a group while leveling up. Yes, it was until about level 30. Then it's almost impossible, at least on my server.

 

In prime time we have maybe 20 people on Taris. How many of those do you think are tanks and healers? Almost every group I've been in, I've put an large effort into creating it and patiently finding tanks and healers. Lately however, no amount of effort has been enough. In the past 3 days on one planet, I managed to join one group for 4 player heroics. Tanking failed horribly in that group, the healer got eaten a few times and left. No replacements to be found.

 

I find it insulting that someone says it's not too rough to find a group while leveling. Yes it is. It's insane. Let's not even mention flashpoints. I just gave up on those entirely.

 

Anyway thanks OP for some well thought out points. Ultimately I'm just glad they promised to do something about it.

 

Thanks for the support - I feel you exactly and I had the same problem post level 30, and why my OP is directed towards people in that level range.

 

Even the people who claim it isnt hard to "find" a group havent said what happens when their group fails or it breaks up, or somebody disconnects. If your Flash point group loses their healer - you have to leave the instance to advertise for another.

 

But the people who hate the idea of LFG support will probably argue "my groups never fail, I'm so great, you're a noob, go back to wow" - which is apparently the best argument for not having a LFG tool.

Edited by Introvertus
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It sounds good yes, but I do not agree with what that post said about it being easier to find a group while leveling up. Yes, it was until about level 30. Then it's almost impossible, at least on my server.

 

In prime time we have maybe 20 people on Taris. How many of those do you think are tanks and healers? Almost every group I've been in, I've put an large effort into creating it and patiently finding tanks and healers. Lately however, no amount of effort has been enough. In the past 3 days on one planet, I managed to join one group for 4 player heroics. Tanking failed horribly in that group, the healer got eaten a few times and left. No replacements to be found.

 

I find it insulting that someone says it's not too rough to find a group while leveling. Yes it is. It's insane. Let's not even mention flashpoints. I just gave up on those entirely.

 

Anyway thanks OP for some well thought out points. Ultimately I'm just glad they promised to do something about it.

 

 

Look let me explain how i played my way to lvl 49 (getting 50 today) and i finished EVERY SINGLE FLASHPOINT WHILE IT WAS ATLEAST GREEN LVL REQ.

 

Ok so i went to Tatooine i finished whole tatooine and as much heroic 2+ 4+ quests as possible then went do space mission and then in the evening around 6-10pm i went to republic fleet and asked for groups of my instances.... look i got groups in a matter of minutes.

 

For EVERY instance up to the red reaper which is still green in my current quest log and will do it in an hour or so.

 

I know it sucks for those outside prime time hours but they knew something like this would happen unless they were DUMB so i cannot help them

 

 

prime time from 5pm to 23:30 is the time when you will have BARELY any problems creating a group to more or less ANY FLASHPOINT excluding hardmodes at 50 those could still be some pain.

 

i did so since i started on 20th and until today and never waited longer than 5 min...

 

Global LFG is needed though. ill agree on that.

 

Another fantastic solution.

 

So the intended way of playing this game is to overgear everything and play it with companions rather than people. That's REALLY doing well socially in this game.

 

You can also skip the flashpoint and do it on HARDMODE at lvl 50.... here you go now thats a fantastic solution.... or help lowbies who lvl i am sure you will get nice reputation in social part of the game for doing that.... oh wait i bet you dont like helping others. based on your communication.

 

All you see isME ME ME ME

 

I recgonize some problems with LFG but LFG finder = easy way to fix the game for noobs, idiots, anti social people, and people with entitlement issues and that 1% of people who really have problems.... i rather see 1% suffering and noobs than all suffering but noobs.

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But the people who hate the idea of LFG support will probably argue "my groups never fail, I'm so great, you're a noob, go back to wow" - which is apparently the best argument for not having a LFG tool.

 

This wasn't even the point of my argument but thank you for the constructive response.

 

Why don't they know how to play their class? Because they never had the opportunity to practice in a group. First time tanks in Hard Mode have a tough time learning how to do it, especially when you consider that a lot of players are Star Wars fans, not MMO players.

 

If people aren't learning their classes as they level, that's a client-side problem, not something Bioware can fix. An LFG tool will not help you learn your class any more than leveling your class will help you learn it.

 

If you pick a Juggernaut, you are told the following:

1) You can tank, or DPS.

2) Your talent trees reflect this

3) So do your skills

 

People that don't take times to read tooltips and learn which skills affect other skills to maximize their class are the problem, not the lack of access to flashpoints at low levels.

Edited by Falkelord
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Alcarinn: That's good for you. On my server, you don't get a flashpoint group within minutes. You can spend hours looking and all you'll find is that one DPS who wants to be in your group but doesn't want to help you look for others. This is in prime time.

 

You can try to blame me, but asking politely doesn't seem like a bad way to start a group to me. Sometimes I see others trying to find a group as well, and often that same person will spend absolutely ages trying to find even that last DPS.

 

I'm thinking the only way to solve the problem is to move to a higher population server. But the population is pretty unpredictable these days, so I don't really know if that's wise after all.

Edited by thecoffeecup
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If people aren't learning their classes as they level, that's a client-side problem, not something Bioware can fix. An LFG tool will not help you learn your class any more than leveling your class will help you learn it.

 

If you pick a Juggernaut, you are told the following:

1) You can tank, or DPS.

2) Your talent trees reflect this

3) So do your skills

 

People that don't take times to read tooltips and learn which skills affect other skills to maximize their class are the problem, not the lack of access to flashpoints at low levels.

 

You're right - and yet tooltips only go so far. Do you disagree that someone who has not played an MMO before will know absolutely everything they need to know in order to do Flash points when they reach 50. Do you also disagree that even if this person does find a group, he/she will never be met with hatred and impatience from other players that might cause them to lose interest or passion for finding groups. It might make them want to learn their class more - but where do you go to practice? That's my argument.

 

Let's just assume that in spite of everything, you acknowledge that there is indeed a Lack of easy access to flashpoints for levels 30 - 45 say. Many would argue this period is the time where one really learns their character and decides how they intend to play it. If you can't get groups to practice and learn how others play, then you will fail in hard mode. No matter how good you are or how quickly you pick it up.

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I think there needs to be a sticky made on how to use the /who system cause half to all of what is being asked for can be done with this system you just need to do some typeing. Well that and ppl need to actually use it
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I think there needs to be a sticky made on how to use the /who system cause half to all of what is being asked for can be done with this system you just need to do some typeing. Well that and ppl need to actually use it

 

Fair point. I just think the system needs to be changed so that it's easier and more accessible for everyone to use.

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You're right - and yet tooltips only go so far. Do you disagree that someone who has not played an MMO before will know absolutely everything they need to know in order to do Flash points when they reach 50. Do you also disagree that even if this person does find a group, he/she will never be met with hatred and impatience from other players that might cause them to lose interest or passion for finding groups. It might make them want to learn their class more - but where do you go to practice? That's my argument.

 

Let's just assume that in spite of everything, you acknowledge that there is indeed a Lack of easy access to flashpoints for levels 30 - 45 say. Many would argue this period is the time where one really learns their character and decides how they intend to play it. If you can't get groups to practice and learn how others play, then you will fail in hard mode. No matter how good you are or how quickly you pick it up.

 

I've tanked my entire MMO life. And yet I found myself getting used to an entire new style of tanking here. One where I don't have a whole lot of AOE aggro grabbing abilities as a Juggernaut. I took the time to read my tooltips, learn my skill interactions, and I did all that leveling 1-50.

 

I did the occasional flashpoint, and didn't have too hard a time because I knew what skills to use.

 

My point here is that even though I'm a well-versed tank, I had to re-learn this game's mechanics. A new person starting for their first MMO is in the same boat, having to learn the game's mechanics. They can do this too, by, surprise, reading their tooltips and doing their homework. If you want to play the game, you mash buttons. If you want to enjoy the game, you learn your skills.

 

Simple as that. What is the entire 1-50 leveling grind but a practice for the big stage? As a tank, you're making your healing companion heal you while you keep the mobs off them. As a healer, you make your tank companion not die while they do the dirty work. DPS, same thing.

 

That's what you're supposed to do while you level 1-50. You're supposed to learn your skills and use them. You don't need a group setting to do this, although it helps. Hell, I haven't seen the inside of Colicoid War Games or Black Talon, but I've watched videos on tanking the HMs, and learned the dungeon layouts so that I'll be familiar with them when I do have to do them.

 

A LFG tool won't help you learn your class any faster than good old fashioned work. In fact, it'll make it harder because people that THINK they know what they're doing will hop in queue and **** everyone else that knows what they're doing. I just don't think predicating your argument on the fact that it makes it easier for the new/unfamiliar MMO crowd holds a lot of weight because the mechanics to learn the game are already included in the box.

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Doing singleplayer questing won't prepare you for group play. It won't make you a better raider. For example, it isn't hard keeping aggro from your companion because they are extremely predictable and less powerful than a real player who has any idea about DPS. You also won't learn how to successfully navigate boss mechanics because questing mobs don't do anything seriously painful.

 

The best way to learn that while leveling is to do flashpoints and heroics. If a tool will help you find groups, then you have more opportunities to learn while leveling, and you have an easier time finding groups at 50. I don't really know what anybody will lose if such a tool is implemented. But I have a pretty good idea what we'll gain.

Edited by thecoffeecup
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Doing singleplayer questing won't prepare you for group play. It won't make you a better raider.

 

The best way to learn that while leveling is to do flashpoints and heroics.

 

The best way for an actor to learn is not by being cast into a production of "Les Miserables" the very first time he acts. You get that by practicing your skills and honing them. On your own. But by your logic, this isn't the case.

 

You can give a brand new player a level 50 and tell him to run a FP, and he probably won't be any good. You let that same player learn from level 1 the entire ins and outs of his skills, and you can bet they'll be good at their role.

 

If you don't know the difference between the taunt button and the button that activates your fleet pass, a LFG tool will not help you find that. You do that on your own. The game can't just help you do everything.

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Alcarinn: That's good for you. On my server, you don't get a flashpoint group within minutes. You can spend hours looking and all you'll find is that one DPS who wants to be in your group but doesn't want to help you look for others. This is in prime time.

 

You can try to blame me, but asking politely doesn't seem like a bad way to start a group to me. Sometimes I see others trying to find a group as well, and often that same person will spend absolutely ages trying to find even that last DPS.

 

I'm thinking the only way to solve the problem is to move to a higher population server. But the population is pretty unpredictable these days, so I don't really know if that's wise after all.

 

 

Well i see 2 ways... ill look from the point of objective side...

 

1. a person either wants to do flashpoint since he/she wants to see the story in it

2. a person wants to do flashpoint because he/she wants the experience/loot

 

If its 1. then you can do solo everything for story at lvl 50(well most the 50s one youll get groups

 

If its 2. then you are better off lvling with class story and on planets for faster XP

 

The game is created to be able to be palyed without doing any group quest and reach lvl 50 and then do all group quests... so i really see no good reason to cry over this.

 

I know it sucks but to let all know i am on The Red Eclipse server and we have no problem with none-english communication in our general(sometimes it happens but extremely rarely)

 

There are LFG or LFM for Esseles, Hammer Station, Athiss, Taral V, Maelstrom and now Cademimu War Game is poping out also frequently every day after 5 pm CET...

 

We have 150+ on rep fleet every afternoon and tons of good guilds on both sides.

 

So no problem at all.

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And that was my point. I need a different server I think. I've never seen anything even close to 100 players in fleet. Close to 70 was probably the most I've ever seen, and that was a while ago. Planets often have less than 20 people.

 

I think when populations are this low, we should be looking at server merges or transfers.

 

Still, a better LFG tool would help, and I don't see how it would hurt if it isn't cross-server.

Edited by thecoffeecup
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