Right now- the main two complaints are these.

Casuals/PuGs- right now, facing a premade means generally being dominated, a one sided match, and ultimately makes people want to queue less because it's not fun... which in turn lowers queues (you can argue as much as you want that being smashed by a premade doesn't make people not want to pvp- but everyone sensible knows the truth)

Premades- just premade queues would be too long since there's not enough people interested in actual competition.

Both legitimate- as while the current system makes pvp less fun for casuals, a separate system would make premades get less pvp.

There is a solution though-

1- Matchmaking/ELO. This should have been in from the start.

2- A ranked queue that is full premade- this is where 8 man teams belong. This queue should be cross-server, since real competition should mean a full group. That, and more players to draw from= less queue time. This should have unique titles, cosmetic gear, pets/mounts so that there is something at the end of the season to look forward to- and some mild decay so people won't just get to 2400 rating or whatever in the first few weeks then sit there without risking pvping again and hurting their rating.

3- A ranked queue that is partial premades and solo- for smaller teams, this queue should be cross server for the same reason as above. Same with cosmetics- just different from the full premade's choices so each queue has their unique rewards.

4- A normal queue that is specifically for casual play- no premades. Normal is not meant to be competitive, it's for fun- we have ranked for competitive. This queue has enough people to not need to go cross server. Normals are for getting the gear to be viable- and that should be reflected in the rate of gain- remove rated comms (or make them for cosmetic items specifically) and make EWH reasonable.

Premades don't get their queues fall, ranked might see real action, and normals get at least somewhat more even matches... at least they shouldn't see full EWH teams ploughing them ruthlessly over and over.

Right now- the main two complaints are these.

 

Casuals/PuGs- right now, facing a premade means generally being dominated, a one sided match, and ultimately makes people want to queue less because it's not fun... which in turn lowers queues (you can argue as much as you want that being smashed by a premade doesn't make people not want to pvp- but everyone sensible knows the truth)

 

Premades- just premade queues would be too long since there's not enough people interested in actual competition.

 

Both legitimate- as while the current system makes pvp less fun for casuals, a separate system would make premades get less pvp.

 

There is a solution though-

 

1- Matchmaking/ELO. This should have been in from the start.

2- A ranked queue that is full premade- this is where 8 man teams belong. This queue should be cross-server, since real competition should mean a full group. That, and more players to draw from= less queue time. This should have unique titles, cosmetic gear, pets/mounts so that there is something at the end of the season to look forward to- and some mild decay so people won't just get to 2400 rating or whatever in the first few weeks then sit there without risking pvping again and hurting their rating.

3- A ranked queue that is partial premades and solo- for smaller teams, this queue should be cross server for the same reason as above. Same with cosmetics- just different from the full premade's choices so each queue has their unique rewards.

4- A normal queue that is specifically for casual play- no premades. Normal is not meant to be competitive, it's for fun- we have ranked for competitive. This queue has enough people to not need to go cross server. Normals are for getting the gear to be viable- and that should be reflected in the rate of gain- remove rated comms (or make them for cosmetic items specifically) and make EWH reasonable.

 

Premades don't get their queues fall, ranked might see real action, and normals get at least somewhat more even matches... at least they shouldn't see full EWH teams ploughing them ruthlessly over and over.

With cross server play I agree 100% with this idea. I think I suggested something similar not so long ago. Have normals drop normal warzone comms, Ranked queues (both the Team ranked and the solo ranked) drop ranked comms as an incentive to gear up so the people who get their war hero (battle master now) have an incentive to leave the fresh 50s alone.

This I like.

Right now- the main two complaints are these.

 

Casuals/PuGs- right now, facing a premade means generally being dominated, a one sided match, and ultimately makes people want to queue less because it's not fun... which in turn lowers queues (you can argue as much as you want that being smashed by a premade doesn't make people not want to pvp- but everyone sensible knows the truth)

 

Premades- just premade queues would be too long since there's not enough people interested in actual competition.

 

Both legitimate- as while the current system makes pvp less fun for casuals, a separate system would make premades get less pvp.

 

There is a solution though-

 

1- Matchmaking/ELO. This should have been in from the start.

2- A ranked queue that is full premade- this is where 8 man teams belong. This queue should be cross-server, since real competition should mean a full group. That, and more players to draw from= less queue time. This should have unique titles, cosmetic gear, pets/mounts so that there is something at the end of the season to look forward to- and some mild decay so people won't just get to 2400 rating or whatever in the first few weeks then sit there without risking pvping again and hurting their rating.

3- A ranked queue that is partial premades and solo- for smaller teams, this queue should be cross server for the same reason as above. Same with cosmetics- just different from the full premade's choices so each queue has their unique rewards.

4- A normal queue that is specifically for casual play- no premades. Normal is not meant to be competitive, it's for fun- we have ranked for competitive. This queue has enough people to not need to go cross server. Normals are for getting the gear to be viable- and that should be reflected in the rate of gain- remove rated comms (or make them for cosmetic items specifically) and make EWH reasonable.

 

Premades don't get their queues fall, ranked might see real action, and normals get at least somewhat more even matches... at least they shouldn't see full EWH teams ploughing them ruthlessly over and over.

The cross server scenario is BW greatest failure in PVP. They have been trying to get this to happen since last spring and everytime we here anything about it, some programer admits it cannot be done with this game. It is the one solution that will get premades out of lower rank wz's into the arena they actually belong.

As a seasoned PVP vet I can take my moderately geared GS up against a premade and own those dudes, but that's because I have over a 1000 wz under my belt. You sort of learn a thing or two playing pvp for that long, but the noob stepping in for the first time actually wants to feel like he is enjoying the game without some premade geek farming his butt just because he can.

Even in sports you don't put a division one team up against a rec team. Why is it allowed in game competitive PVP?

BW doesn't view ingame PVP as a competitive sport, although some gamers take PVP as serious as an athelete takes football or baskett ball.

So I agree that we need to start separating HC gamers from Casuals in PVP. When the casuals hit a certain rating than bump them up a tier.

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

sucks to be you

Solo ranked Q would completely defeat the purpose of regular WZs. Why would anyone Q for normal WZs at this point?

Well fresh 50s would take it as a way to get their non recruit gear in an environment where they won't face crushing defeat at the hands of min/maxed war hero geared players, some of whom are no doubt in some sort of premade. If it's solo queue it would also be nice for people who just want to log on and do dailies in a low key environment. It would provide an option for people who say they just want casual PVP. They could gear up at their own pace, and not risk facing more organized competition.

Exactly what people have been clamoring for. You should still be able to complete dailies and weeklies with it, so there is still the possibility of doing that.

Oh the irony. Please rise up to the challenge to overcome your mediocrity and fix your horrible grammar and spelling. On a serious note, not all posts may be constructive nor for a split queue system, but the overwhelming majority agree the system is not fine as is and are for the following in any combination and or order:

 

-Cross Realm Function

-Adequate and more robust Matchmaking System

-Split queues for Premades and Pugs.

 

 

All three of which are pure gold for PvP and all three of which we honestly need as they compound each other and make for a solid system which fixes many if not all problems, putting PvP in an overall much more attractive, balanced and functioning state. We as a community need to be pushing for all three and not just a single one. Alone none of these will fix PvP, instead it will become a slightly less annoying but still dysfunctional system. We need all three, no less, stop arguing and start working together to push for a much more robust, balanced, thriving and competitive PvP system for all.

Yay! you attacked someones spelling and grammar on the internet. In a computer game forum none the less. + 5 internet points. Not like I made a rushed post from a tablet or anything. Now onto real content.

Doom already said it, but we don't need all 3. I"ll go a step further though and say we only need 1. I'm pretty sure I'm actually the poster who got this thread accept that matchmaking does in fact exist in game currently, granted it could be better, but that would lengthen que times. If they get too long I believe (note how like everyone else here I can't prove it) that will cause SWTOR to hemorrhage subs. Adding Cross server, with the existing matchmaking system will fix the majority of the (perceived?)problem while keeping que times where they are or making them shorter.

So my previous points still stand, but hopefully this clarifies a point I made in the thread 20ish pages ago that LeonHawkeye hasn't read.

Asun. You are wrong. Now I support a better matchkaking system (something that doesn't keep q's too long) but your whole lose subs like crazy argument is just ignorant. There are far less geared premaders than there are casuals. If all the geared premaders quit that would be a rather small % of overall players and it would likely help the q. Now I am not for this but I just get annoyed when someone says something as ignorant as you just did.

Wait arguing that long ques lead to people leaving the game is just ignorant? Even when I specifically stated it was opinion. Hmm. Now as I said I don't have the reports that BW gathers when people unsub, but I seem to remember once que times got over 5 minutes they pretty quickly got up to fifteen, (because more people gave up / logged off / unsubbed), which quickly turned them into 30+ minute ques. Do you not remember the origin servers? I many not be RIGHT, but ignortant? No more so than anyone else without BW's unsub reason data, and my opinion looks pretty justifyable based on the explination I just gave even if it is incorrect, which we don't know.

Solo ranked Q would completely defeat the purpose of regular WZs. Why would anyone Q for normal WZs at this point?

Fun. Especially if the only difference was ranked got cosmetic things.

But gear progression in normal pvp- put unique cosmetics in ranked.

Hi all.

Got back to this game some time(around a mounth i belive?) ago and leveled a sage to lvl 50. Had a lvl 50 Guardian before that but i wanted something new.

Really had fun with the pvp as i leveled and actualy had more fun in it then in wow (don't jump on me please ).

Thing is i got to level 50... For some 3 days now i won a great number of 3 games out of 30 (not sure but around so). You are free not to belive me of course.

Got so many premades its not even funny. Take last game. Played on Alderan Civil War. Imps captured all 3 turrets really fast and then they where w8ting for us at the start point (where you get off the speeder). I was tring to get some damage in to get medals but bounty hunters/shadows(forgot the imps name of the class) where pulling us in and 2,3 shooting us (the entire team from below) over and over and over and OVER AGAIN.

I seriously have NO problem with getting owned in pvp to the point i have gear... Thing is i have the recruit thing + 4 BM parts... I really don't die that much and i can kite a lot. I run behind my team and so on. This is NOT a problem... Thing is not winning, getting stomped over and over its ... Horible...

Then the last part is... Aparently people like to group up and go in normal WZ and farm people... This is NOT what i whant to do after i get geared up... Not even sure i can find people to do rated and aparently the ques are HORIBLE there because people farm and have fun grieving people in normals...

My sub ends on 18 of december... That is when i stop playing. Hate to go back to wow as i am SO bored of it but there i can go in a random BG and face randoms 95%+ of the time (playing with 1-2 friends does not count). Then i can do ranked PVP after... Got so damn bored of that game but aparently its the only option curently... I even tried GW 2 but i don't like it. I find PVP on swtor way better aside from the crep matchmaking system...

Thank you for taking the time to read this and if i come out like "change it or i quit" stuff i am sorry but i just felt like putting my pain here... They should really give you an option to fight random people. A que where only solo people can que... Then a group play where the rewards or something are better... Or better find a way to get group to que for ranked. Look at wow, no need to force people to single que when people go to ranked because the rewards and raiting...

Premades- just premade queues would be too long since there's not enough people interested in actual competition.

 

Why everybody mention this ? If it will happen then it means nobody wants it. So solos are majority. And system must take care of majority. Minority can split and do solo as well. It will force minority to recrut newbies into guilds to make queues, like "we will give u 100k each day during 2 weeks if u will do premades with us" .

Whatever, current WZs were intended to gear up for world-wide pvp. Now it is broken, so best use of it is solo pugging. And majority understands it.

Wait arguing that long ques lead to people leaving the game is just ignorant? Even when I specifically stated it was opinion. Hmm. Now as I said I don't have the reports that BW gathers when people unsub, but I seem to remember once que times got over 5 minutes they pretty quickly got up to fifteen, (because more people gave up / logged off / unsubbed), which quickly turned them into 30+ minute ques. Do you not remember the origin servers? I many not be RIGHT, but ignortant? No more so than anyone else without BW's unsub reason data, and my opinion looks pretty justifyable based on the explination I just gave even if it is incorrect, which we don't know.

That was an entirely different problem, and not one we will face again unless we have a mass exodus of the game as an entity and not just a particular server. Back then the origin servers were so vast in number that the population was literally sprinkled far too thin, many servers peaked at 50-100 players online at any particular time (server wide, not just fleet), with perhaps half of that actually queuing for PvP, no where near enough to support a healthy pool for Warzones of any kind, this is what caused the disgusting problem we had back then, the abundance of problems this caused snowballed onto itself and pushed many to leave Warzones permanently and some even to simply quit the game. With the recent server merges, even the least populated realms have 150-200+ on average, peaking at around 500+ and hitting 60-100 at their lowest. These are fleet only numbers, the overall server population is obviously much, much higher and the total number of people queuing can also be much higher and or lower but we'll use these as baseline measures for the population health of a server. As you can see, just our Fleet only population is enough to overshadow the entire server population of what the origin servers could muster.

Warzones are unplayable by solos...

I'm playing solo on warzones for three days and i won TWO TIMES ! TWO **** TIMES !

They NEED to separete GROUP Warzones from SOLO Warzones...

It's common seeing 0 x 10 on Huttball or people killing 30 and dying 0...

I'm starting to invite random people only to be able to enter in the group team...

And guess what? I won almost all of the matchs...

Solo warzone is 90% chance of loosing.

I'd like to see your psychological studies on the matter, in following the scientific process to the letter, that 1 match is enough to make enough subscribers quit. Unil then, it is not undeniable.

 

Split queue's have several issues that a matchmaking system doesn't have. Backfilling, filling for partial premades, the highest potential queue times, highest potential players unable to play, highest allowance for mediocrity, discourages community building... etc... Even if you think you can discredit the queue times issue, you still have atleast 4 other logistical and moral issues.

 

Matchmaking allows for backfilling and filling of partial premades, and since you say queue times aren't an issue with cross server, than they won't be with matchmaking. Once in a blue moon will there be a "mismatched and unfair match" by the system design.

 

And if one more person calls me narrowed minded because I don't agree with them, I'm probably going to laugh myself to death. I don't know what you've experience in your life, but I can tell you I've dealt with actual real life issues that require an open mind and a sense of empathy. Not feeling bad for people who refuse to be social is nothing compared to those.

This game already has matchmaking. Answer the following:

Are you a dev of this game?

Do you know the current matchmaking code?

Do you have facts and data to prove that the current matchmaking isn't working?

The answers to these are probably no. The truth is, matchmaking is more of the same.

What are we getting with the more of the same? Well you can log in and see for yourself AKA dead ranked queue's due to lack of competitive nature from premades, hence why they rather pug stomp.

When you say you want better matchmaking, you just want things the way they are. Which isn't working, kinda the reason why people are leaving PVP. You want more competition? Then lure more people into PVP, it's simple.

Bad suggestion is bad.

People dont understand that they loose because the big majority of these "solo" players are bad...and bad+bad does not = good...

And thats exactly the problem, poeple avoid playing in teams..avoid learnign from others...avoid building synergie with a team and then xpect to get better?!not going to happen....

been around long enough to see it proven over...and over...and over again.Take WOW for example...all those World pvp, solo heroes...e-famous movie makers form Vanila wow...how many of them actualy succeeeded in rated pvp where skill is required?almost none....I love being in a team and having people giving me tips..showing me how to play better and improve, that ultimately will make me a better player...

this people complain about premades, BW gives them solo queue, they will keep being bad and when they are done with the egar farm they will cry about not getting into a team for rwz...and will start asking for rwz solo queue (and i have seen this already) which is the ultimate non sense retardness ...

The problem is NOT in solo queu vs premades...its in the amount of people not wanting to let the pvp comunity improve..not wanting to improve themselvs and choosing instead to blame people that team up and use tema play to succeed...IN A TEAM PVP SCENARIO ON A MMO(SOCIAL INTERACTION REQUIRED)

(sorry for my English)

I don't want swtor pvp to die and I think it will if it stays as is so if x server isn't a possibility then I would go with split q at this point. However, if you do split q with the current system current premades will get in vent and q up at the same time and often get on the same team.

However, if we make a simple matchmaking system WITH MIXED FACTION TEAMS then that won't happen. Also, think about whether the times you are angry about premades are you really angry about only 1 premade? No, likely you are facing several different ones. This system would stop this and it would def stop the sync q which happens sometimes. With the lowered gear gap of 1.6 and if they did something like this I think our problems would be fixed. I would also be fine now with a wait of up to 10mins for premades. Hopefully it would be faster (and most of the time it would) but this way it would be pretty rare for premades to fight a pug (and I think more rare than it would be if we do split q because its pretty easy to game the current system)

I started to pvp here when it was NO premades at all. I mean - it was single queue for all, maybe somebody was grouping 2-3 persons. Any way, it was time of initial friend searching and people didnt use voice programs yet.

So that was time when you could watch others and learn from them. Now, teams just crush you and you have nobody to learn from in PuGs. (Same with HM FPs btw, I was shocked how bad new tanks are leveling sork, I played by shadow 6+ months before that - because geared want do it fast and bads have no time to figure out something inside.)

If it will be "only solos" queue good players will play it for different reasons (like team is offline or cant get match) and it will be a chance for bad's to learn. Any way in such case goods and bads will be shaked like in mixer.

I started to pvp here when it was NO premades at all. I mean - it was single queue for all, maybe somebody was grouping 2-3 persons. Any way, it was time of initial friend searching and people didnt use voice programs yet.

 

So that was time when you could watch others and learn from them. Now, teams just crush you and you have nobody to learn from in PuGs. (Same with HM FPs btw, I was shocked how bad new tanks are leveling sork, I played by shadow 6+ months before that - because geared want do it fast and bads have no time to figure out something inside.)

 

If it will be "only solos" queue good players will play it for different reasons (like team is offline or cant get match) and it will be a chance for bad's to learn. Any way in such case goods and bads will be shaked like in mixer.

And the the counter argument to that is that players should be learning their class and the WZs in 10-49 PvP.

I don't like running into roflstomping premades either, but I also don't want to get penalized and forced into a bracket when I want to PvP with some of my friends.

And the the counter argument to that is that players should be learning their class and the WZs in 10-49 PvP.

 

I don't like running into roflstomping premades either, but I also don't want to get penalized and forced into a bracket when I want to PvP with some of my friends.

That would be great if it was a PVP only game, but it's not, there are PVP server that you get that exposure, but face it, this is a PVE game with storie lines. Some people would actually like to see their class stories, not PVP until 50. Sure you can do the PVP 10-49 for leveling but then you lose the challenges offered while leveling WITH the story.

Someone who is level 50 can't go into a low level planet to learn skill or advance by one-shotting low-level mobs. Why do some in the PVP community think it should be accepted that highly-skilled PVPrs should advance by rofl-stomping fresh PVPrs in recruit, especially on PVE servers? Diminishing returns comes to mind.

Do pro sports teams practice against College teams? Do college teams scrimage against High School teams? No, so why allow it in PVP?

That would be great if it was a PVP only game, but it's not, there are PVP server that you get that exposure, but face it, this is a PVE game with storie lines. Some people would actually like to see their class stories, not PVP until 50. Sure you can do the PVP 10-49 for leveling but then you lose the challenges offered while leveling WITH the story.

 

Someone who is level 50 can't go into a low level planet to learn skill or advance by one-shotting low-level mobs. Why do some in the PVP community think it should be accepted that highly-skilled PVPrs should advance by rofl-stomping fresh PVPrs in recruit, especially on PVE servers? Diminishing returns comes to mind.

 

Do pro sports teams practice against College teams? Do college teams scrimage against High School teams? No, so why allow it in PVP?

I never said that they had to level themselves by PvPing, just that the lowbie bracket is the place for them to learn about both their class and the WZs. Even if they only did the daily, 2 losses or 1 win, they would gain some knowledge instead of just jumping straight into 50 WZs without knowing anything.

Now, to use your sports reference, are you going to take someone that has no idea how to play a sport, toss him/her the required gear and expect them to perform? Doubtful, you would want them to have some knowledge on how the game is played and their role within it.

I never said that they had to level themselves by PvPing, just that the lowbie bracket is the place for them to learn about both their class and the WZs. Even if they only did the daily, 2 losses or 1 win, they would gain some knowledge instead of just jumping straight into 50 WZs without knowing anything.

 

Now, to use your sports reference, are you going to take someone that has no idea how to play a sport, toss him/her the required gear and expect them to perform? Doubtful, you would want them to have some knowledge on how the game is played and their role within it.

Ding Ding Ding, you almost got it, but I didn't say that I didn't PVP during the 10-49 bracket, I eluded that SOME people choose to do the PVE experience. All I did with my last 2 toons was class quests, FP's and PVP, but I still didn't outlevel the planets to enjoy the challenges at the level they offered. Learning to play your class in PVP in the 10-49 doesn't prepare you for the Valor/Gear/Expertise gap when players in the 10-49 bracket don't have the full use of their respective abilities.

Remember the expense of getting the last group of abilities at 50? Don't you realize that some people enjoy learning their rotations through trial and error and not through the cookie-cutter sites? Are you advocating that everyone should have the max coms and be (at minimum) valor 40 when they hit the 50 bracket? Not everyone is a die-hard PVPr, especially on a RP or PVE server. What gives the die-hards the right to dictate how someone else plays their toon?

Edit: And if the Die Hards would stop QQ about fresh 50's in the WZ, they have the option of not queuing or stick to the RWZs they QQ about before they were released.