I'm all for hard fights however story mode Toth and Zorn are a bit over tuned for the target player base. the enrage is a bit tight at 4:30; However, 5:30 would be a better time for columi geared players. Currently all columi/rakata groups I have been in tend to hit the enrage timer at between 20% and 5%. The damage output is also bit high as well, I suggest a 15% to 20% nerf to all damage output. other then that I really love the fight and its a lot of fun and the mechanic keep you on your toes.

Its not over tuned. Use HM EV/KP to gear up. This is tier 2 content.

My guild has, just recently, finally cleared 5/5 Hard Mode in both of the first tier flashpoints. We're still not all perfectly geared, since we don't truly have the other two OPs on farm yet and the guild has only recently been making a PVE push meaning a lot of people have to gear up even with columni.

That being said, last night after getting our first HM Soa, we beat Toth and Zorn on story after three attempts, with the two wipes mostly coming from learning the tank swap mechanics.

Honestly I didn't even know there was an enrage, we never saw it.

Bioware PLEASE do not nerf this fight. It's fun, a little different, and is perfectly doable.

Also Rakata Chest drop is pretty sexy for the first boss in a story mode.

Its not over tuned. Use HM EV/KP to gear up. This is tier 2 content.

Not having had a chance to try it yet, I'm not making any judgments on the difficulty, but since the story mode drops the same gear as HM EV/KP, your post makes no sense. The 3 should be able to be run in tandem.

Its not over tuned. Use HM EV/KP to gear up. This is tier 2 content.

If the target audience is people running story modes then the progression should be EV/KP story mode then this story mode. I mean the whole idea of having story modes was so that people who can't/won't do hard modes can still do the raids.

If the target audience is people running story modes then the progression should be EV/KP story mode then this story mode. I mean the whole idea of having story modes was so that people who can't/won't do hard modes can still do the raids.

I would think that if you want to progess HMs are nessecary..

I would think that if you want to progess HMs are nessecary..

It would depend on your definition of progression. Story modes should progress into the next level of story mode, as the gear does. Columi from EV & KP, then rakata from EC. And HM should progress into HM. If you have no interest in doing HM stuff, you should still be able to see the story mode of everything assuming you go through story progression appropriately. It was renamed to "story mode" from normal mode for a reason, after all.

If the target audience is people running story modes then the progression should be EV/KP story mode then this story mode. I mean the whole idea of having story modes was so that people who can't/won't do hard modes can still do the raids.

By that logic every new raid that releases in the coming patches should be Tionese/Columi friendly on story mode so that the new 50's can enjoy it.

By that logic every new raid that releases in the coming patches should be Tionese/Columi friendly on story mode so that the new 50's can enjoy it.

No by that logic, people should be able to progress through the story modes. I.E. Story mode EV/KP, story mode EC, story mode next raid, story mode raid after that.

I also thought EC 'story' was a bit overtuned based on their stated goal for story mode.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/

It doesn't bother me but I thought especially the first boss on story was more difficult than many HM bosses in EV/KP. And that would be cool if they said that was their progression model but it wasn't. In the 1st bullet in #3 on the link above from the Guild Summit they stated that normal would become Story and be even easier than EV/KP. /shrug. I imagine this will just fuel another casual/hardcore fire and there will be tons of flames on both sides. I can't imagine a casual guild in Columi/Tionese from story EV/KP will be gettinc this new raid down any time soon.

No by that logic, people should be able to progress through the story modes. I.E. Story mode EV/KP, story mode EC, story mode next raid, story mode raid after that.

correct story mode EC should be tuned for columi geared players. as bioware stated story is for enjoyment. so being that story drops rakata it is logical and sane to agree that STORY mode Toth and Zorn need a bit of a nerf to bring them inline with the story mode player base will be geared in. for a challenge hard/nightmare modes are good

Do we even know the difference between columni and rakata?

It's not much.

56 mods vs 58 mods.

Do you see a stat difference? Yes, of course. But it's not this gargantuan stat difference that ultimately decides whether you beat any of story mode EC fights. It just isn't -that- profound.

I don't think the fights are overtuned. What people sometimes don't differentiate is wipes because it is "too hard" and wipes because "you don't know the mechanics." Lost Island HM and EC fall into the latter. Even if you used to raid hard modes in other games, SWTOR has conditioned you (in the first tier) to ignore the vast majority of mechanics. The content in tier 2 is a significant wake up call. Guild groups, PUGs will become so much more proficient when they get accustomed to the mechanics.

I think some of you are missing the point. No one here seems to be complaining that it is too difficult. What some of us are saying is it's not what they advertised, they being Bioware. They said that normal was becoming 'story' and it would be even EASIER than the first tier of raiding. EC story is NOT easier than EV/KP normal. Not even close. Some people don't want that much of a challenge they just want to see all current content. I imagine many unprepared people who have only done normal EV/KP and have equivalent gear will be most unhappy with this new raid in 'story' mode.

Some of you just keep saying new raid, it's harder brah. When Bioware said that wasn't gonna be the case. HM is gonna be for most guilds, Nightmare will be truly a nightmare for the hardcore raiders and story will be for the casuals, pugs and people who will never make it raiding HM content. Kinda like LFR in WoW. This is smart tiering of the raids but when casuals start going in there and wiping for 3 hours on the 1st boss they will be most unhappy. Then all of you will flame people for complainging when BIOWARE said they'd be easier. Lol this isn't rocket science.

Personally I think they should have followed through with making story mode easier and have the lockouts work with HMs. That way you can't double dip for that few pieces of Rakata gear that you need then also get to do HMs the same week. That way casual guilds, story IS their lockout. Progression guilds, HM or Nightmare is theirs.

well i come from a guild of just 10 people we have all been friends for a long time but now being much older have families and other commitments that only allow us to raid once a week on a saturday night for 3 hours.

we progress through ev normal easily as it is easy went on to hm and got 9/10,

now tonights raid seemed differnt offcourse the raid is alot harder, seemed harder to us then soa hm(yes where not the best of players in the world)

with time constraints we where all very looking forward to story mode continuing our journey through raiding and picking up the odd bit of gear here and there, but oh boy we where in for a shock 4 hours of wiping and we all went to bed, its kind of left a sour taste in my mouth.

We dont want things to be giving to us but story mode should be there for the casuals hm progressive raiders and nightmare for hardcore.

if its a persistent thing that each night we will wipe to death on story mode then i cant see us playing anymore

you set the rules so story mode was suposed to be relatively easy leave it tha way and keep your subs with it

and to the people who undoubtably say something like *** noob boss is easy.

we just dont have hours upon hours to wipe but still want to have fun

I think some of you are missing the point. No one here seems to be complaining that it is too difficult. What some of us are saying is it's not what they advertised, they being Bioware. They said that normal was becoming 'story' and it would be even EASIER than the first tier of raiding. EC story is NOT easier than EV/KP normal. Not even close. Some people don't want that much of a challenge they just want to see all current content. I imagine many unprepared people who have only done normal EV/KP and have equivalent gear will be most unhappy with this new raid in 'story' mode.

 

Some of you just keep saying new raid, it's harder brah. When Bioware said that wasn't gonna be the case. HM is gonna be for most guilds, Nightmare will be truly a nightmare for the hardcore raiders and story will be for the casuals, pugs and people who will never make it raiding HM content. Kinda like LFR in WoW. This is smart tiering of the raids but when casuals start going in there and wiping for 3 hours on the 1st boss they will be most unhappy. Then all of you will flame people for complainging when BIOWARE said they'd be easier. Lol this isn't rocket science.

 

Personally I think they should have followed through with making story mode easier and have the lockouts work with HMs. That way you can't double dip for that few pieces of Rakata gear that you need then also get to do HMs the same week. That way casual guilds, story IS their lockout. Progression guilds, HM or Nightmare is theirs.

First off, where did they say that Story Mode EC would be easier than Story Mode EV/KP? Considering it drops Rakata that wouldn't make much sense to me. And when you say "see the content" what do you mean? Many casuals still want a challenge, and I'd be kinda miffed if story mode EC was easier than the two previous ops. If you mean "See the story" then they can go youtube the fights and cutscenes if they want the story.

Is it easier than Story mode EV/KP? Absolutely not. Would it be possible and appropriate to beat the first boss of EC if you've cleared story mode of EV/KP? Absolutely. I have no reason doubting that a group geared in columni could clear this. As someone said, the difference between Rakata and Columni just isn't that huge. Heck most people with rakata have columni enhancements in them to compensate for the not very good stats on Rakata.

BW changes their minds weekly. They don't want content to be super easy because if it is, people will quit. It is the old "carrot at end of stick" routine. Put a good carrot out there and ppl will still keep reaching for it.

It is not overtuned at all. You can ignore mechanics almost entirely and still win.

Honestly we just downed them on story mode. A guild ops group with a mix of raiders who are in different raid groups within our guild. So ofcourse we wiped a bunch of times because we dont play together as a single raid group.

It was a lot harder than we thought it was going to be but it was quite fun.

Whats funny is we also went to do soa in hm in the same group and 2 shot him when every one of us except one player has never beaten soa on HM. I dont know but playing EC seemed to help us play better in EV. Was quite fun so i would agree with the majority to not nerf the new operation.

The thing is a group capable of doing SOA hardmode should faceroll the new raid story mode. Story mode isn't for you. You should be doing hardmode and having your challange.

If the place is a challange for SOA hardmode players the casual NM players it is designed for in story mode have zero chance.

Having spent some time on this fight, I can say without a doubt, the target was missed. My raid is 10/10 HM EV/KP, and we couldn't do it in the time we gave it. We're not the best raid force out there by any means, but we're pretty solid. We coordinate fairly well and we're probably 2/3-3/4 rakata geared, so a raid tuned to PUGs should have been almost faceroll easy. It was not.

Now, that being said, do I have any doubt we'll get it? No, of course not, but that's not the point. The point is that an average PUR will have no chance. One led by folks who are intimately familiar with the encounter and has tanks and healers that are solidly more geared and experienced than the typical would, perhaps. But the intended audience will encounter nothing but frustration and debt.

You can watch the guild summit here:

between 6-8 minutes is the part about hard/nightmare and story modes. It doesn't say that storymode EC would be easier than EV/KP. It says that they expect you to gear up through EV/KP but the gearing 'curve' would not be so steep compared to hard/nighmare modes. They also said that they were going to focus more on mechanics etc. rather than just requiring more stats to beat the fights.

When groups get used to the new mechanics for EC I dont think it will seem as difficult as people are making out now. Since there is a lot more movement and so on required for the fights compared to EV/KP, DPS/healing will suffer until players get used to it. When people adjust to what is required then the DPS will improve.