Why is it that the same loot drops in 8 mans as 16 mans, yet the 16 mans are easily 3 times harder? This goes for both normal and hard modes.

 

What incentive are you giving people to run 16 mans exactly? We can walk through the 8 mans on both difficulty, but when it comes to 16 man hardmode its a different story.

 

as a guild we would like to raid together as 16, but really, why when 8 man is so much easier and shares the same lockout and loot?

 

IMO you need to increase the loot on 16 man normal to ONLY columi drops to give incentive for guilds to run the 16 mans, and again the 16 man hard/nightmare should be ONLY Rakata drops, again incentive to do them over the much easier 8 man versions.

damn didnt see theres already a thread about this lol

Completely agree.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I've seen 16man is actually 2 times less tier level loot then 8 man. The drops are exactly the same even though there are 2x more people raiding. Seriously?

I don't want to think this was intended and hope it's just one more thing gone wrong and scheduled for fixing. Please clarify on this.

Why is it that the same loot drops in 8 mans as 16 mans, yet the 16 mans are easily 3 times harder? This goes for both normal and hard modes.

 

What incentive are you giving people to run 16 mans exactly? We can walk through the 8 mans on both difficulty, but when it comes to 16 man hardmode its a different story.

 

as a guild we would like to raid together as 16, but really, why when 8 man is so much easier and shares the same lockout and loot?

 

IMO you need to increase the loot on 16 man normal to ONLY columi drops to give incentive for guilds to run the 16 mans, and again the 16 man hard/nightmare should be ONLY Rakata drops, again incentive to do them over the much easier 8 man versions.

 

Now that the Bulk of the population is hitting endgame we are seeing how horribly itemized it is as well as buggy. i suspect another 20 to 30 % burn off at the end of this sub cycle. BW needed to listen to the early endgame community and adjust of their feedback if you look back to 8 days after release we see alot of the same threads we are posting.

I am guessing they want everyone to have the same chance at the same loot even if they cant ge 16 people together? Also that 16 man drops a lot more loot and is doable you just have to coordinate and work together a lot more then people are used to doing. 16 man is very doable.

I am guessing they want everyone to have the same chance at the same loot even if they cant ge 16 people together? Also that 16 man drops a lot more loot and is doable you just have to coordinate and work together a lot more then people are used to doing. 16 man is very doable.

 

It should at least drop a lot more loot than it currently does.

Completely agree.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I've seen 16man is actually 2 times less tier level loot then 8 man.

 

u r wrong

The thing is, I don't even mind the bosses being a bit tougher . . .

 

But is it just me or is the trash between the first and second boss in 16m EV the worst??

 

Stupid droids . . .

The loot is fine, the problem is that 8-man is quite a lot easier than 16-man. They need to make the difficulties more equivalent. Edited January 30, 2012 by eNcFireWraith

Why is it that the same loot drops in 8 mans as 16 mans, yet the 16 mans are easily 3 times harder? This goes for both normal and hard modes.

 

What incentive are you giving people to run 16 mans exactly? We can walk through the 8 mans on both difficulty, but when it comes to 16 man hardmode its a different story.

 

as a guild we would like to raid together as 16, but really, why when 8 man is so much easier and shares the same lockout and loot?

 

IMO you need to increase the loot on 16 man normal to ONLY columi drops to give incentive for guilds to run the 16 mans, and again the 16 man hard/nightmare should be ONLY Rakata drops, again incentive to do them over the much easier 8 man versions.

 

8-Man Nightmare is mathematically harder. For example take Nightmare Soa;

 

8NM: 2 lightening balls

 

16NM: 3 lightening balls, yet 16 has double the people - why not double the balls then?

 

Mind Trap health is the same for both: 25.5k - should be more than doubled for 16 considering 16man has 11 dps where as 8man has 5.

 

Health difference for phase 3: 630k (16NM) v 320k (8NM) yet 16 has more than double the dps (11 v 5 as stated above).

Why is it that the same loot drops in 8 mans as 16 mans, yet the 16 mans are easily 3 times easier?

 

That's the question you should be asking.

 

16 man fights are always easier, as the previous poster showed some clear examples.

Edited January 31, 2012 by TheVoidStalker

8-Man Nightmare is mathematically harder. For example take Nightmare Soa;

 

8NM: 2 lightening balls

 

16NM: 3 lightening balls, yet 16 has double the people - why not double the balls then?

 

It used to be, but got out of control and almost impossible to win due to having twice as many people in a smaller area

 

Mind Trap health is the same for both: 25.5k - should be more than doubled for 16 considering 16man has 11 dps where as 8man has 5.

 

You obviously haven't run this fight yourself because on 8 man the traps don't have 25k health.

 

Health difference for phase 3: 630k (16NM) v 320k (8NM) yet 16 has more than double the dps (11 v 5 as stated above).

 

In this phase 16 man has exactly double the DPS as 8 man, because everyone - even healers should be DPSing on the boss.

 

 

 

You forgot to mention how the outgoing damageon 16 man normal is double or more than 8 man nightmare. And that on 16 man nightmare it's even higher.

 

You also fail to have valid points about anything in your post.

 

Please give me an actual example of how any 8 man is harder than 16, because it isn't.

You forgot to mention how the outgoing damageon 16 man normal is double or more than 8 man nightmare. And that on 16 man nightmare it's even higher.

 

You also fail to have valid points about anything in your post.

 

Please give me an actual example of how any 8 man is harder than 16, because it isn't.

 

I like how you dispute that 8 man mind traps have 25k HP. Have you done the fight on 8 Hard/Nightmare?

 

The traps have 25k HP on 8 Nightmare. The traps have 25k HP on 16 Nightmare.

Balls do not do extra damage on 16 Nightmare over 8 Nightmare.

 

For proof of either of these, feel free to compare ball damage and trap health:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDmPifRtfxo (@8:11) - 16 Nightmare Mind Trap Health

(@3:47-3:49) 16 Nightmare Lightning Ball Damage (Watch Dreadlich's health carefully)

(@3:11) - 8 Nightmare Mind Trap Health

(@3:20-3:23) - 8 Nightmare Lightning Ball Damage (Watch Meebo's health carefully)

 

Also, your conjecture that 16 has exactly double the DPS of 8 man due to healers and tanks DPSing, is asinine. 11 pure DPS in 16 man vs 5 pure DPS in 8 man. Irrespective of healer and tank DPS, that's 120% (note 120%, not 100%) more DPS SPECCED PLAYERS than in 8 man. Notice that phase 3 doesn't require exactly 120% more damage done to Soa or traps in 16 man. This means that 16 man has an inherent advantage over 8 mans in terms of damage output. In fact, since lightning balls do not do more damage in 16 Nightmare over 8 Nightmare, you could quite feasibly run with less healers in 16 Nightmare (2-3 instead of 4, as the math assumes) and therefore push to 140-160% more DPS than 8 man, again, without the damage requirement even being double of 8 man.

 

 

Your move.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Anthya

Owned?

8-man operations are harder (I dont wanna say they are hard because nightmare was a thing for 1-2 days) than 16-man for a simple reason.

 

Lets say you are in step 3 @ soa in 8 man u basically got 2 healer 1 tank and 5 dps.

Then your tank gets mindtrapped and someone needs to take over. Additionally there are lightning balls which you can hardly tank if your not tank/marauder while soa hits you, but you also must be sure soa stays under the pylon, which also damages you... in 16 man i dont see that problem.

TBH, neither mode is particularly difficult.

 

Pre-nerf HM Soa was challenging, but post-nerf even Nightmare is a complete snoozefest.

 

While some of the encounters show potential (mechanics wise) such as Bounty Hunters, Fabricator and Soa, nothing at all is tuned to be even remotely challenging now.

 

Which is OK, since it's entry level raiding - but god I hope 1.2 tier is both challenging and tuned correctly for both 8 and 16.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, remains to be seen.

TBH, neither mode is particularly difficult.

 

Pre-nerf HM Soa was challenging, but post-nerf even Nightmare is a complete snoozefest.

 

While some of the encounters show potential (mechanics wise) such as Bounty Hunters, Fabricator and Soa, nothing at all is tuned to be even remotely challenging now.

 

Which is OK, since it's entry level raiding - but god I hope 1.2 tier is both challenging and tuned correctly for both 8 and 16.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, remains to be seen.

 

The fights have potential as you said, but right now its tuned so you can just brute force mechanics.

For the people complaining about how easy the 8 mans are do 16 mans. For people complaining about how hard 16 man is do 8 man. 8 mans are for casuals and 16 mans are for hardcore raiders whats the problem.

For the people complaining about how easy the 8 mans are do 16 mans. For people complaining about how hard 16 man is do 8 man. 8 mans are for casuals and 16 mans are for hardcore raiders whats the problem.

 

Well, somebody managed to miss the point.

because the purpose of the game is not to entertain you, it's to keep you subscribed. Unless that paradigm shifts, this game will be going the way of NGE before long.

16 man just means you can afford to have more people who aren't pulling their own weight and still kill stuff. From my experience.

In my experience so far, there is a difference between 8 and 16 man raids.

 

The biggest difference is the trash. The actual encounters seem to have similar difficulty levels unless some of the people you are bringing to 16 man are not producing or as "skilled" as what is needed.

 

The only exception to this would be 16 man pylons due to not being able to just 2 shot the mobs like you can on 8 man.

Yeah, the trash is infinitely harder on 16 compared to 8.

The loot is fine, the problem is that 8-man is quite a lot easier than 16-man. They need to make the difficulties more equivalent.

 

The loot is not fine. We got more Rakata gear on hardmode than we do in nightmare. In nightmare, we're lucky if we get anything that isn't exotech.

 

I've also noted from my experience that if you want the most gear per person and the best gear available, 8man hardmode will drop more/better loot than every other setting, including 16mans and nightmare.

The loot is not fine. We got more Rakata gear on hardmode than we do in nightmare. In nightmare, we're lucky if we get anything that isn't exotech.

 

I've also noted from my experience that if you want the most gear per person and the best gear available, 8man hardmode will drop more/better loot than every other setting, including 16mans and nightmare.

 

^

 

Indeed. Nothing like a ******** of exotech gear for a NM clear.