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I have full War Hero Gear and my guild is getting on my back because they think it's not good enough for a normal ops raid. (I'm one of two people in my guild who pvp a lot) I did the comparason and it seems as though War Hero gear is better than the Columi gear and the only way to get the Rakata stuff, from what I've heard, is you have to do the Ops. Unless I'm wrong.

 

Should I just give up my War Hero gear and just downgrade to the Columi? Or will I still be fine in Normal Ops with my current gear?

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I think when I first started doing ops, all I had was orange gear with the mods and stuff bought with daily commendations, and my guild were running Hard Mode ops, though they did run a few Story Mode ones for me to get gear at first. I don't recall any issues because of my gear but it might have been because I was a healer and it didn't matter much that my gear wasn't the best, but it sounds like your gear greatly outstrips what I started to raid in!

 

You didn't say what class you are, but if your guild is giving you a hard enough time for you to bring this to the forums, then perhaps it's worth just buying the columi gear to quiet them down and hope that you get better from running the ops with them which is comparable to the PvP gear you've already got.

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Every guild, or every raid group, seems to have one guy who, by doing this kind of stuff, adds stress to something that should be a pleasant activity. "You are not geared enough" or "c'mon guys this should be a 20 minutes run, focus everyone" or "***, why are you just standing there like an idiot".

 

If this guy is an actual raid leader or guild officer or guildmaster, I would consider changing guilds. If he is that anal about normal mode ops, it ain't gonna get better in hardmodes.

 

And if there is more than just one person like that, well, then see above.

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Thanks guys. We are totally not ready for the HM Ops, but they just want to start running normal ones to get used to them and everyone in the group has columi except me. I'm Sith Assassin DPS spec. I'm mostly a Tank/Dps, specced in Darkness and Madness, but they use me as DPS, which works out fine. Thanks for the info. I might look into changing guilds or see how these ops play out. I already have full War Hero gear and I don't want to have to spend more time grinding the HM's to HOPEFULLY get the gear they want me to get.
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You (and they) should look at the stats of each item to compare, but in my experience, War Hero gear should be roughly equivalent to Columi gear for PVE purposes. As a Vanguard tank, I actually find WH gear is often better than Rakata gear, because it has more Shield/Absorb in exchange for less Aim/Endurance. YMMV.
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I don't want to have to spend more time grinding the HM's to HOPEFULLY get the gear they want me to get.

 

Excepting Denova (which, in my opinion, story mode denova is actually equivalent to a hardmode op), the normal mode ops drop Columi gear.

 

Which means you would typically gear up in oranges with purple 50s, pick up a few tionese/ columi from hardmode flashpoints, and you are good to go.

 

If you are all columi, you do not get upgrades from normal more EV/KP. You start hardmode EV. its the easiest hardmode op and it drops rakata armor left, right and center :)

 

You farm hardmode EV for a while. You try hardmode KP a couple times.

 

Then you start normal mode Denova.

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Excepting Denova (which, in my opinion, story mode denova is actually equivalent to a hardmode op), the normal mode ops drop Columi gear.

 

Which means you would typically gear up in oranges with purple 50s, pick up a few tionese/ columi from hardmode flashpoints, and you are good to go.

 

If you are all columi, you do not get upgrades from normal more EV/KP. You start hardmode EV. its the easiest hardmode op and it drops rakata armor left, right and center :)

 

You farm hardmode EV for a while. You try hardmode KP a couple times.

 

Then you start normal mode Denova.

 

This is good to know actually, thanks!

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the war hero gear armoring has a rating of 146 versus the 126 of columni gear and 116 for tionese gear.

 

However, in a pvp item, 25% to 30% of the item budget is spent on expertise, meaning that these points are completely useless in a PVE environment.

So from a PVE point of view, war hero gear would be, stats wise, between columni and tionese, and therefore completely relevant for normal mode operations, and to a limited extent, hard mode operations.

 

Please note that the damage range of your weapon with a rating of 146 (war hero) is vastly superior to columni and tionese. So even with inferior overall pve stats, your damage output may be on par with your guildmates using their columni weapons.

 

Ideally, you should discuss with your raid leader, and may be bring to the table a combat log against a dummy, so that hard numbers will demonstrate that you're competitive.

 

On a more psychological note, healers don't like to heal tanks that are using PVP gear, as it feels that they must "pick up the slack" and have to compensante the tank sub-par equipment with more healing, and everyone knows how stressfull healing can be (especially if your guild is starting operations and therefore it's not on farm status).

So yes, as a dps you can probably do operations, but please don't do it as a tank (unless they're really desperate for a tank and the healers are accepting it).

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I did my 1st HM Ops on my Shadow in full Battlemaster gear and it was fine, so if you have War Hero you are good to go. As a DPS Shadow it appeared to to me that Columi gear was just slightly better than Battlemaster for PVE, so War Hero should at least be on par.

 

If your group is in full Columi already you should really be doing HM Ops, the drops in normal modes won't do anything for you, it will all just be more Columi which you already have. However if you have never run them, it would be a good idea to run the normal modes once just to learn the fights.

 

The one thing I would suggest, you should be doing the daily quests on Belsavis, Ilum, and Black Hole to get the daily comms. Save these up so you can get your Rakata earpiece and implants or a better relic. Those Rakata pieces should be better than your War Hero pieces in those slots.

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I have full War Hero Gear and my guild is getting on my back because they think it's not good enough for a normal ops raid. (I'm one of two people in my guild who pvp a lot) I did the comparason and it seems as though War Hero gear is better than the Columi gear and the only way to get the Rakata stuff, from what I've heard, is you have to do the Ops. Unless I'm wrong.

 

Should I just give up my War Hero gear and just downgrade to the Columi? Or will I still be fine in Normal Ops with my current gear?

 

speaking as someone who has cleared every ops every difficulty, there is no reason that you should have a hard time keeping on par DPS with full war hero vs someone who has full columni. Unless your rotation sucks or you're skilled out terribly, you'll do just fine. I'd even say you'd do fine in full war hero in hard mode EV; KP would be a slight challenge.

 

that said, assassin DPS has been shown to be one of the worst (ops is better with perfect rotation, would be worse with a poor/sloppy rotation) so prepare for that.

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the war hero gear armoring has a rating of 146 versus the 126 of columni gear and 116 for tionese gear.

 

However, in a pvp item, 25% to 30% of the item budget is spent on expertise, meaning that these points are completely useless in a PVE environment.

So from a PVE point of view, war hero gear would be, stats wise, between columni and tionese, and therefore completely relevant for normal mode operations, and to a limited extent, hard mode operations.

 

This isn't true. Compare a piece of augmented War Hero gear to a piece of Rakata and you'll find that the War Hero kit is actually on a par, if not slightly stronger. It is much, much better than Columi or the joke that is Tionese.

 

I know because I have both Augmented WH gear and full Rakata and I noticed as I went to swap my boots over that there was an awful lot of red on the comparison. So I took a few moments to look at my other augmented pieces (Head, Chest, Boots, Gun) and in every case found the WH piece to be similar but with slightly stronger secondary stats. We comfortably 1-shot both EV and KP HM with me in that gear even with other members of the group undergeared (and me healing, so not like I can hide behind people carrying me.)

 

Battlemaster is slightly inferior to Columi but still more than adequate to clear EV and KP in HM. I'd actually rather have people in BM gear than Tionese as the increased mitigation is very useful and they also have stronger output.

 

TLDR: War Hero gear, especially augmented, is fine for HM Ops and SM Denova. Anyone saying otherwise needs to actually compare the two.

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\We comfortably 1-shot both EV and KP HM with me in that gear even with other members of the group undergeared (and me healing, so not like I can hide behind people carrying me.)

This isn't intended as a disagreement with your post, but I feel I should point out that gear requirements for healers lag behind those for tanks and DPS for most instances. Denova story is a good example; healers can comfortably be a sub-tier below the rest of the raid and do fine.

 

Itemisation is also incredibly important, and imho, anyone who (for example) equips full stock Rakata and rolls up to a raid should be summarily given the boot. That's not elitism, it's just a reflection of the fact that stock tier gear is (for the most part) pretty badly itemised, and if you're not doing something about that you don't really understand anything about your class stat interactions. Sage/sorc healers are an excellent example: itemised Columi is ridiculously superior to vendor Rakata.

 

At any rate, to the OP, if your guild members are getting on your back about War Hero being insufficient for story mode raiding, they need to stop worrying about a lack of gear; their lack of intelligence is going to cause much bigger progression issues.

Edited by Aurojiin
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At any rate, to the OP, if your guild members are getting on your back about War Hero being insufficient for story mode raiding, they need to stop worrying about a lack of gear; their lack of intelligence is going to cause much bigger progression issues.

 

You might be right about that..

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If your guildies are giving you a rash about your WH gear not being good enough for a Story mode Op, it's because they're rubbing your nose in it for being a PvPer & shining their own ePeen over their endgame gear. I thnk I'd show them up, and do the op with someone else.

 

I'm not into PvP much myself, but I've grouped enough with PvPer's for Op's & HM to know that BM gear is more than sufficient. And WH gear is even better. In fact, I havn't seen any SM or HM content yet that couldnt' be done without any endgame gear. It just requires good play.

 

#1 if your dps outgear your tank- they have to be smart enough to exercise some self control so that the tank will be able to tank. This is just a matter of not burst dpsing, and instead trying to spread out the cool downs.

#2 if your healer is undergeared, either take 2 healers or be smart ~ use CC as much as possible & stay out of the AoE damage.

 

I've not had a problem with dps being undergeared, so much as I've had a problem with them not being team players & actually working with the team to take down fights in a logical order, not using their defenssive CD's, and not changing their rotation to help the tank hold aggro. Not beating enrage timers is usually the result of dps getting hurt too much, and thus my not being able to contribute any dps at all / the tank constantly struggling to hold aggro instead of contributing dps.

 

If you play with people who want to exploit/ zerg their way through a HM, then gear can be important. But the gap between basic level 50 gear and endgame gear just isn't the big deal people make it out to be. The set bonuses arn't even a big deal. It's just people wanting to feel like they're better players because they achieved a drop you havn't. I've gotten quite a bit of endgame columi gear, and my companions are wearing almost all of it.

 

People on these forums are unclear on the concept of diminishing returns. The defininition here is "the point of diminishing returns" is the quantity of stat at which 1 more point of that stat will not grant you the same bonus as the previous point.

 

consider this... for your main stat- whatever it is- at a level of 1200pts

adding +100 to get to 1300 will give you 1300pts & a %8.33 improvement in everything that comes from that stat

adding another +100 will give you 1400pts & a %7.69 improvement

adding another +100 will give you 1500pts & a %7.14 ""

+100 for 1600pts gives a %6.66

+100 for 1700pts gives only a %6.25

 

That is, by definition, dimishing returns..... for the main stat, that everyone swears doesn't have a point of diminishing returns. Sure there is a huge difference between 1200 & 1700 (a %41 improvement over 1200). But the difference between 1635 and 1705 (70pts ~or~ %4) isn't going to determine whether or not you're capable of clearing content.

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I have to be blunt, Stop being lazy.

WH gear is great in a WZ, not so much in Pveland.

The disparity between pve and pvp gear is too great a gap in anything but story mode EV and KP.

"my warhero gear is better than columi" thats a false statement. The difference between a full set of WH and columi gear is massive, do you really think all that expertise comes at no stat loss? What about set bonuses? they don't factor in at all?

 

Honestly, if your guild is riding you about gearing you have 2 choices as I see it.

1. Play ball, spend a week farming HM's and get columi + geared.

2. Gquit.

 

Each set of gear has their area to shine in, don't gimp yourself or your friends.

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Just did a rough check between my old gear COlumi + rakata chest vs my full set of BM gear.

SHould hopefully show you the difference that alittle expertise makes.

columi BM

Weap damage (top end) 967 947

Crit 36% 36%

Surge 75% 72%

Accuracy 95.1% 100%

Bonus damage 422 396

 

Now if you were a raid leader which would you rather go with?

 

I am aware its not WH gear that im comparing but its just to highlight the difference that expertise makes in an overall set of gear, not a piece by piece analysis.

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BM and WH is fine for story mode on Eternity Vault and Karagas. In fact WH is better than Tionesse and almost on a par with Columni. So Just one gear up raid in story mode to get one or two Columni peices to swap some expertise to your primary PvE stat and you will be good for hard mode. Pleease not that story mode Explosive conflict is between hard and nightmare modes on the other two opperations gear wise.

 

If you have a very good rotation and the rest of your party are in full columni or better there is no reason not to go straight to hard mode opperations.

 

*Sigh* Raided last night Karagas HM with a player that had near full BM gear and had actualy sliped WH armmorings mods etc into his one peice of Rakata. Made the raid slightly harder than expected but we got through.

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Just did a rough check between my old gear COlumi + rakata chest vs my full set of BM gear.

SHould hopefully show you the difference that alittle expertise makes.

columi BM

Weap damage (top end) 967 947

Crit 36% 36%

Surge 75% 72%

Accuracy 95.1% 100%

Bonus damage 422 396

 

Now if you were a raid leader which would you rather go with?

 

I am aware its not WH gear that im comparing but its just to highlight the difference that expertise makes in an overall set of gear, not a piece by piece analysis.

 

Columi: (967+422)*(0.36*0.75+1)*0.951 = 1678

BH: (947+396)*(0.36*0.72+1)*1.00 = 1691

 

To me it looks like BH is slightly better, so I'd go with that.

 

But I'm no raid leader, maybe you could elaborate a bit?

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I have full War Hero Gear and my guild is getting on my back because they think it's not good enough for a normal ops raid. (I'm one of two people in my guild who pvp a lot) I did the comparason and it seems as though War Hero gear is better than the Columi gear and the only way to get the Rakata stuff, from what I've heard, is you have to do the Ops. Unless I'm wrong.

 

Should I just give up my War Hero gear and just downgrade to the Columi? Or will I still be fine in Normal Ops with my current gear?

 

Tell your guild to take a chill pill. I started doing Normal Ops in BM gear. So yeah..you'll be more than fine

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Okay...

 

Although the primary stats in BM/War Hero gear might be a little bit low, the mods/enhancements have the exact same stats as the PVE equivalent PLUS the expertise. The armoring is the only thing that has low stats, as it takes a good amount of the primary stats and puts in some expertise. For some reason the mods and enhancements aren't like that, though.

 

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Anyway, if you get the augmented set of your war hero gear and put in willpower augments (+18 willpower and +12 endurance), you'll bump up your primary stats back up.

 

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With my augmented war hero gear, I've been dps in HM EV and HM KP no problem. I haven't tried normal mode EC with it though, but I think I could manage it too (maybe not the whole raid but some of it :p). Go madness spec for dps, though, it's better imo.

 

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I have a tanking set of actual pve gear for tanking, and I use the war hero augmented for dps. No complaints by anyone, and no problems.

Edited by RiseOfDeath
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