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Situational Awareness: improve your Unranked WZ experience


KillaDeuce

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I don't claim to be some pro PvP player in the slightest. But I follow these pretty good about 80-90% of the time. There are always exceptions / situations where you do otherwise. And I do make mistakes like everyone.

 

Not you in particular. It speaks volumes that you had to urge to write this thread.

 

I've been there, done that. Everyone on this forum claims that everything involving awareness/tactics/strategy is EASY-MODE and they all are pros at it. I would believe it if I saw more than 1-2 people in a whole WEEK that have shown me anything remotely close to playing at a high level. I started a lot of threads and started some guides, then quickly (not quick enough) realized it was a futile endeavor. Hope you have more luck than me.

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There is one of those points that I would disagree with or slightly modify.

 

Don't always fight ON the node but close enough that you can attack it but far enough out from an AoE or CC. This is obvious for ranged toons, but DPS should learn this as well.

 

Take voidstar: If 4 teammates defending are right on the node, then all it takes is a couple AoEs or CC's and they are all dead or unable to stop the plant. It also makes it more difficult for healers (I would think I've never been one) if everyone is getting a couple 8/9K AoEs stacked. When I see that, I try to stay back or awe the couple mercs that are AoEing the group.

 

Really I think sents should focus more on the healers and drop trans for the defense buff. Killing attackers isn't always the best course of action in voidstar at least.

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There is one of those points that I would disagree with or slightly modify.

 

Don't always fight ON the node but close enough that you can attack it but far enough out from an AoE or CC. This is obvious for ranged toons, but DPS should learn this as well.

 

Take voidstar: If 4 teammates defending are right on the node, then all it takes is a couple AoEs or CC's and they are all dead or unable to stop the plant. It also makes it more difficult for healers (I would think I've never been one) if everyone is getting a couple 8/9K AoEs stacked. When I see that, I try to stay back or awe the couple mercs that are AoEing the group.

 

Really I think sents should focus more on the healers and drop trans for the defense buff. Killing attackers isn't always the best course of action in voidstar at least.

 

You are correct in your statement, but my list is just general suggestions. You are going into details. If I did that it would be a wall of text and no one would read it.

 

I am going for more general situational awareness for pvp players in general.

 

If you want you could bring up details for everything I listed just for the sake of saying it is wrong.

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We need different WZs. The 3 defend this, defend that, WZs are simply boring, annoying, absolutely no fun. BW needs to develop less stun, heal, interrupt, based WZS. I understand they try to cater PvP reject in a desperate effort to increase subs but this is rock bottom. PvP should be fun not frustration.

 

You sound like a PvP reject. QQing about heals and stuns, really? XD

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How about adding something about not having 4 people try to cap at the same time on a Voidstar door instead of using their cc's... I love that.

 

Actually if you don't see any enemy around then you should all cap because the more person capping at the same time the much harder it is for any stealth defender to stop you without revealing himself. A very common mistake is when you see an appraently unguarded node and one guy cap while 3 guys tries to look for the stealther, who probably popped Blackout already and will easily elude those 3 guys and just sap the one guy you've capping, thus delaying you. If you all cap, he can only sap one guy at a time, and will be forced to reveal himself very quickly since he'll white bar everyone very shortly, and this also means his usual CC tricks are useless once he reveals himself due to everyone being white barred.

 

Now if you can see any enemy around then yeah, leave one guy to cap while the rest deal with the enemy either by killing them or CCing them.

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Actually if you don't see any enemy around then you should all cap because the more person capping at the same time the much harder it is for any stealth defender to stop you without revealing himself. A very common mistake is when you see an appraently unguarded node and one guy cap while 3 guys tries to look for the stealther, who probably popped Blackout already and will easily elude those 3 guys and just sap the one guy you've capping, thus delaying you. If you all cap, he can only sap one guy at a time, and will be forced to reveal himself very quickly since he'll white bar everyone very shortly, and this also means his usual CC tricks are useless once he reveals himself due to everyone being white barred.

 

Now if you can see any enemy around then yeah, leave one guy to cap while the rest deal with the enemy either by killing them or CCing them.

 

every class has some kind of aoe to stop that kind of group cap, even stealth classes.

 

one person should cap. i especially despise players who will run up when i am 50-75% done capping, start capping themselves, and then an enemy (WHO THEY COULD HAVE CC'D!) shows up and stops us both.

 

bads make me sad

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every class has some kind of aoe to stop that kind of group cap, even stealth classes.

 

one person should cap. i especially despise players who will run up when i am 50-75% done capping, start capping themselves, and then an enemy (WHO THEY COULD HAVE CC'D!) shows up and stops us both.

 

bads make me sad

 

I said 'apparently unguarded node', which means there's really a stealther around. I mean if you can see someone running toward the node that's not 'apparently unguarded' anymore and whoever is running toward the node should be dealt with.

 

If you have one guy cap the stealth guy pops Blackout and unless you simply guess exactly right where he is with an AE, whoever you cap gets sapped and you get delayed at least 20 seconds because the guy who is capping can be sapped twice (16s) plus the time it takes to kill the stealther and then finish capping.

 

Of course the stealth guy have an AE to stop that a group cap. That's fine. You want him to reveal himself rather than trying to find a guy with Blackout. Once you see him, of course you should only have at most 1 guy capping if not 0. But if you see no defenders, just have everyone cap, because there really is almost always a stealth defender and this is the fastest way to force him to come out of stealth.

Edited by Astarica
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How about adding something about not having 4 people try to cap at the same time on a Voidstar door instead of using their cc's... I love that.

 

I want to add this one in.

 

 

My opinion would be no more then two people on the door. But if there is only two of you. Then yeah one ready for CC and one cap.

 

 

Anyone have any other opinions on the matter? Remember not to detailed. Just a general plan that works most of the time.

Edited by KillaDeuce
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I want to add this one in.

 

 

My opinion would be no more then two people on the door. But if there is only two of you. Then yeah one ready for CC and one cap.

 

 

Anyone have any other opinions on the matter? Remember not to detailed. Just a general plan that works most of the time.

 

In Voidstar your primary concern on capping are the respawning defenders, not the stealth guy. The design of Voidstar favors offense (offense has no respawn timer) so it's very unlikely a stealth defender can afford to simply sit out of the fight near the door.

 

If you're talking about any other map, as soon as you clear the defenders you should have everyone cap because this is the most effective way to deal with any stealth defenders that you failed to find. By clear I mean you don't see any red names anywhere. If you can see people coming this way, they need to be delayed somehow.

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I want to add this one in.

 

 

My opinion would be no more then two people on the door. But if there is only two of you. Then yeah one ready for CC and one cap.

 

 

Anyone have any other opinions on the matter? Remember not to detailed. Just a general plan that works most of the time.

 

you want a plan for capping that works in all situations?

 

the first guy to start capping caps. everyone else focuses on keeping enemies away from him. its not rocket science.....

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Personally I don't think you can teach anyone these things. It's purely down to when you realise you should stop playing team deathmatch and actually focus on aiding your team or trying to win.

 

I'm not going to lie, I have my games where I feel like topping damage or objectives or protection etc etc, but that's only to have a change from trying for wins all the time.

 

6 teammates fighting 1-2 enemies on an objective. Leaves 5-6 enemies heading to your other objective.

This is the most annoying thing for me. You call 2snow or something and then you look at map and 6 of your team are powering towards you.

Not to be big headed or anything but I am very aware of situations like this, I'll do my best to break off from the group when enemies are thinning out.

Which brings me to another point. Let's use Novare Coast as an example. Say 7 of your team go mid and 7 of the enemy goes mid. After a fight ensues you realise (at least you anyway) there's like 6 of you still attacking 1-2 pushing mid. By this point i'll break off to west (or east) or at least make sure to check on it. Though, the 5 still at mid continue to beat on the 1-2 people pushing at mid. Then when side gets capped all you see is "***?!!? call??!?"

If you fail to notice there's 5 of you killing 1-2 people there's a slim chance you're going to notice a call either way.

 

Anyways just my 2c

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If your class do not have a disengagement skill then you absolutely should kill the 1 guy you see first when you have 5 guys around him. Even in general it's often faster to kill the 1 guy so you get Sprint back on than attempting to slowly walk to where you're needed. Being in combat is effectively a 30% snare and the easiest way to get rid of it is killing the one guy that put your 5 guys in combat.

 

A disengagement skill would be like the roll, force speed, or predation, anything that allows you continue to your objective at full speed without killing the 1 guy in between. But not every class has these skills, and for the classes without they're better off killing the guy first.

Edited by Astarica
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I am by no means a pro, but here are a couple of things that do help significantly:

 

- If you have 2 nodes in NC and CW, you should maintain 2 defenders on each node.

 

- If you have 1 node in NC and CW, you should limit defending to 1 defender, because it is not very likely enemies will try to take a third node if they have 2. An extra attacker should be useful if your team is on the offense.

 

- In CW, transporter to side nodes is much faster than middle node. You are better off attacking a side node when enemies re-spawn then alternate to middle.

 

- In VS and if you are the attacker, you NEVER EVER want to send you entire team on one door, because enemies will respond by having 7 defenders. GL killing all 7 defenders at the same time. You want minimum 2 attackers at each door and alternate attacking the doors trying to confuse the defender team of where they need to be.

 

- Same applies for NC and CW, if you send 7 attackers on one node enemies will respond by having 6-7 defenders at the node. Wiping them all will be near impossible.

 

- 2 defenders in HG is paramount, especially if your team is already winning. Extra 50-100K damage in score board is pointless if you lose.

 

- in HG, stealth should attempt to take node solo at least once around 45 sec to closing portal. If there are 2 defenders do not waste your time. Go middle.

 

- HB, if you are on the offense make sure you are standing AHEAD of the ball carrier not beside or behind him/her. You want to give him/her pass options.

 

- HB, on the defense, in a most situations priority is to attack enemies ahead of ball carrier. If the ball carrier has no one ahead of him to pass to he/she will not make it all the way on his/her own to the goal line before dying.

 

- Tanks are not in the WZ to dps. Please use guard, primary on healer, but can be used to whoever is in 15m proximity.

 

- Sins, juggs and PT. Please use taunts. And no, you do not need to be a tank.

 

- Marauders/sentinels use preditation/transcendence at start of battle. No you do not want to use it for zen.

 

- Unless you are 1 of 2 to 3 defenders left, you should not use your defensive cool downs below 40% HP.

Edited by Ottoattack
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  • 3 months later...

Thread necro, but for a good cause. This needs more visibility, judging from all the terrible moves I have seen done in PvP today. Great tips, I even learned a few things myself. :) I 5 starred you.

 

I would like to comment on the part about never leaving a healer as a defender because they should be healing the group. In a few instances (Voidstar defense, huttball) having 4-5 healers is not really an issue, but beyond that it becomes a handicap, especially those who don't know how to off-dps enemy healers and throw some ranged moves to help out on damage. In the case that there are 2 other strong dedicated healers, or 3 healers that dps a little, the need is generally greater for an extra dps with the group and thus making that 4th healer guard makes sense (mercs are extra sturdy and have a lot of defensive CD's, ops have stealth and aoe mezz, sorcs have 2 CC breakers). I also shudder when I see healers simply leave nodes unguarded because they believe they should never be left defending. At least having the courtesy of asking for someone to replace them might inform them on the status of what's needed in the thick of action at that moment, and I find that usually someone will offer themself if there really is need for an extra healer.

 

I noticed as you move up in situational awareness skill, your scoreboard "performance" goes down accordingly leaving less room to strive for the top numbers (you defend more often, rotate more proactively, kill key targets at the expense of massive mindless dps on the same tank for a minute, CC more, etc) but you're being far more useful to your team.

 

Also, it seems obvious but wearing PvP gear makes a major difference in survivability. Too many people still think it's "useless" because the mod values are lower.

Edited by smilingbee
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Thread necro, but for a good cause. This needs more visibility, judging from all the terrible moves I have seen done in PvP today. Great tips, I even learned a few things myself. :) I 5 starred you.

 

I would like to comment on the part about never leaving a healer as a defender because they should be healing the group. In a few instances (Voidstar defense, huttball) having 4-5 healers is not really an issue, but beyond that it becomes a handicap, especially those who don't know how to off-dps enemy healers and throw some ranged moves to help out on damage. In the case that there are 2 other strong dedicated healers, or 3 healers that dps a little, the need is generally greater for an extra dps with the group and thus making that 4th healer guard makes sense (mercs are extra sturdy and have a lot of defensive CD's, ops have stealth and aoe mezz, sorcs have 2 CC breakers). I also shudder when I see healers simply leave nodes unguarded because they believe they should never be left defending. At least having the courtesy of asking for someone to replace them might inform them on the status of what's needed in the thick of action at that moment, and I find that usually someone will offer themself if there really is need for an extra healer.

 

I noticed as you move up in situational awareness skill, your scoreboard "performance" goes down accordingly leaving less room to strive for the top numbers (you defend more often, rotate more proactively, kill key targets at the expense of massive mindless dps on the same tank for a minute, CC more, etc) but you're being far more useful to your team.

 

Also, it seems obvious but wearing PvP gear makes a major difference in survivability. Too many people still think it's "useless" because the mod values are lower.

 

 

Thanks for the bump. I gave up on the thread a while ago and play the game very very casually now, if at all.

 

 

About the Healer comment, you are right. Having 4-5 healers is one instance where having a healer guard would not be an issue. But you can find details for almost everything I wrote in the thread where you wouldn't do this or that in certain situations.

 

I don't expect anyone to read all the responses in the thread. But I believe I explained a few times that I was going to keep my suggestions and advice very generalized.

 

If you make everything to detailed and technical people won't read it. They just read the subject line, see a wall of text and then troll you based on the subject line since they won't want to read a huge essay.

 

It has been a while since I read through this thread. Let alone posted on these forums, LoL. But I made a little note on the healer part for you. I only saw your post cause I got an email for it. LOL Still had the notifications on for it.

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