I wonder why some people are that much against arenas that they even threaten to quit the game.

 

Who is forcing you to do the arenas?

 

Dude. Come on... Developers force us to do arenas if we want top gear. I do not want/like seeing someone else in a top porrible gear, especialyl if it's a pvp gear and know that there's no way for me to get it because I do not want to do arenas/rated bg's (which are same arenas, just bigger).

If it was just "get your top pvp gear from doing arenas and get, say, 10% more currency on high rating, or play solo in battlegrounds/warzones and get same gear", and if Blizzard didn't balance classes around arenas while often harming pve experience of some class, then no one would ever even complained about arenas. It can be as an option. But nothing more. No priviledges.

1. Arena is far more competitive and skill-oriented than rated warzones.

 

Matter of opinion? Different skill sets are different.

 

2. Arenas will help keep PvPers subscribed to this game

 

Until they get jaded and angry enough to stop doing it. See WoW, where arena participation has declined nearly every season since the system was introduced.

 

3. Arena will help balance this game's PvP

 

Holy Yoda, you've got to be joking. If WoW showed you anything, it was that an arena system introduces massive, irreversible imbalances into every aspect of the game.

 

4. Arenas are breeding ground for skilled players

 

The only point where I can agree. At the very least, it teaches people positioning and situational awareness.

 

On the other hand, it's also a breeding ground for win trading, paid carries, and queue dodging. In other words: cheating on a massive scale.

 

5. SWTOR arena will be EASIER to balance than WoW

 

Given that people already beef about imbalances and broken mirrors, do you really believe that small scale PvP in this game will be immune to FotM comps?

 

C'mon. You can't be that naive.

 

6. Adding arenas will be FINANCIALLY productive for bioware

 

"Blizzard as a company, for some unknown reason, did not appear to like arenas." LOL, I wonder what that reason could be?

 

Maybe because it became impossible to manage, permanently introduced class imbalances, fueled customer complaints and made every successive developer's life a living hell for the last five or six years?

Edited March 16, 2012 by Dayfax

Dude. Come on... Developers force us to do arenas if we want top gear. I do not want/like seeing someone else in a top porrible gear, especialyl if it's a pvp gear and know that there's no way for me to get it because I do not want to do arenas/rated bg's (which are same arenas, just bigger).

If it was just "get your top pvp gear from doing arenas and get, say, 10% more currency on high rating, or play solo in battlegrounds/warzones and get same gear", and if Blizzard didn't balance classes around arenas while often harming pve experience of some class, then no one would ever even complained about arenas. It can be as an option. But nothing more. No priviledges.

 

You don't have to stay in arenas all day for this, and thos who are really interested into PvP will endure something like 10 games a day/week (however bioware would set it).

 

Rating only matters if you have to shove your epeen with your gear. Some of us still do fine with only the second hand gear (champion gear right now).

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

6. Adding arenas will be FINANCIALLY productive for bioware

 

"Blizzard as a company, for some unknown reason, did not appear to like arenas." LOL, I wonder what that reason could be?

 

Maybe because it became impossible to manage, permanently introduced class imbalances, fueled customer complaints and made every successive developer's life a living hell for the last five or six years?

 

Well from what i see on this forums it is filled almost only with complaints too...

Edited March 16, 2012 by silvershadez

If Bioware adds arenas, and like WoW, rewards them with the best stuff, I'm gone. I'll be doing World PvP in GW2 by then anyway.

 

PvP in a MMORPG should NOT be restricted to a bowl with pillars to hump and exploit.

If Bioware adds arenas, and like WoW, rewards them with the best stuff, I'm gone. I'll be doing World PvP in GW2 by then anyway.

 

PvP in a MMORPG should NOT be restricted to a bowl with pillars to hump and exploit.

 

People just aren't reading the main post. In his (and everyone that wants arena) suggestion, arena won't give any better gear than what you can get from warzones. The only difference will be cosmetics. Stats will be the same.

I don't get the hate for arenas especially as purposed. They are just small scale warzones where the objective is to actually be the last team standing.

 

A majority of people seem to focus on killing each other more in the current warzones though that isn't the objective, so you'd think they would want something like this.

 

As for the decrying of one class over the other ... well we don't have arenas now, has anyone noticed the PvP forums ... hell the number one thread for the last weak is someone crying about marauders and sentimental defensive cooldowns.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Anrix

No Arena Please, you will destroy PvE balance because the tears of the Arena kiddies will water the earth.

There are so many reasons to list, and I want to avoid wall of texts. I will try to organize this post as much as possible.

 

Since arenas were popularized in WoW, I will use that game as a comparison in most of the cases.

 

 

 

1. Arena is far more competitive and skill-oriented than rated warzones.

 

-First of all, there is no denying competitive players in general will like PvP more so than casual players (who will mostly stick with PvE). Wonder why most PvP playerbase consist of male gamers, while most female MMO players play PVE? This is because by its nature, PvP is a COMPETITIVE activity. There is no question about the fact that PvPers ARE competitive.

 

 

-Arena is the ultimate solution to promote competition and provide PvPers with the drive.

 

 

-I dont see why some players believe that rated warzones will be the solution for the PvP of the game? Objective oriented PvP such as warzones will be nowhere NEAR skill-dependent and competitive compared to any arena, PERIOD. "Competitive" and "objective" sound like oil and water to me.

 

Warzones = objective oriented (casual) PvP. Arenas = survival/killing oriented (competitive) PvP.

 

What sounds more PvP-like?

 

 

-Objective oriented PvP doesn't give players any incentives to "play well". In warzones, you simply respawn if you are killed due to being outplayed or making mistakes. Arena is whole different story, where the focus is surviving, outplaying, and killing opponents.

 

 

-WZ's are also much less controlled environment compared arenas. 3 unskilled players can easily kill 1 skilled player, if his teammates are bad and doesn't back him up. This again, doesn't promote skill-oriented play and just encourages players to travel in groups.

 

 

 

 

2. Arenas will help keep PvPers subscribed to this game

 

-Motivation is what helps keep players subscribed to the game.

 

We know that most MMORPG designs expect people to stay addicted to the game and keep their subscription through gear progression models. While it is true that PVEers are motivated to play the game to constantly obtain better gears that are released in new flashpoint / operations, PVP'ers' brains work differently.

 

In long story short, PvE'ers are motivated by gear progression. PvP'ers are motivated by competition. (Mere gear progression is not enough)

 

You can't expect to keep many of the pvp playerbase subscribed to to this game without providing adequate motivation in the form of competition. Without a challenge to prevent them from being bored, most pvpers will simply move on to the next MMO that comes out that has decent PvP (guild wars 2 anyone?). To see why rated warzones will not be good enough, refer to my point #1.

 

 

-Arenas will help create a competitive scene and communities such as arenajunkies in WoW. Many of the players there and the top world class WoW players (reckful, hydra, etc) played ARENAS since season 1 of TBC, which is 7+ years. I can't even fathom how any of these players would have stayed with WoW that long, if Blizzard had not added arenas.

 

 

 

 

3. Arena will help balance this game's PvP

 

-First of all you don't seem to know how unbalanced WoW is. One thing that I was impressed with SWTOR as a game was that, for a new game, the classes were EXTREMELY balanced. I played WoW for years since TBC, and even 1v1-wise star wars is FAR more balanced than WoW ever was.

 

 

-So many of you complain that how "unbalanced" this game is. People claim that SWTOR can't have arenas because it is "unbalanced". But do you even know what makes this game so unbalanced, how is it unbalanced, or how can the game be fixed? Everyone has different opinion on what class is OP... every one whines about different things on pvp forums, everything is a huge mess.

 

 

-Arenas will provide both the players and developers with valuable statistics and numbers they need to see which classes and which aspects of the game are truly unbalanced. Arena ladder in my opinion should not only show you names / classes / ratings, but it should also publicly show all of these raw data to allow us to see the state of the game. Some of these include...

 

*We can compare the percentage distribution of the 8 classes on the top ~200 of the ladder, to the overall class population distribution.

 

*Most popular (FOTM) team comps on the ladder to study class synergies

 

*Win loss ratio % of every class vs class matchup (for 1v1 arena), to see which class is particularly overpowered vs another class.

 

*more

 

Although some of player opinions on the PvP forums are valuable, arenas will give us the numerical data that we can actually work with. It will answer all of these questions and give us an idea of how to solve them:

 

"How is the game unbalanced?"

"Which classes are most unbalanced?"

"How unbalanced is class X vs class Y?"

"How can we fix and balance this game?"

 

 

 

Would you rather have this game balanced around endless QQ'ers and whine threads on PvP forums? Or would you have the game balanced around TANGIBLE statistics and numbers? you decide...

 

 

 

4. Arenas are breeding ground for skilled players

 

-When I watch the most popular oldschool vanilla PvP movies (vurtne, drakedog, etc) back in 2005 and top rank1 players streams now, there isn't even a comparison between the skill level of players back then and now.

 

One may argue that as the game matured, the players had years to develop that kind of skill. However it is VERY important to note that although there was hardly any change of skill cap of PvP throughout entire vanilla WoW, with the addition of arenas in TBC, WoW saw an incredible amount increase in average skill of playerbase. Not to mention that arena is what motivated the most skilled of PvPers to stay with WoW after all those years.

 

 

-If I have to handpick the most skilled player in WoW, I have to choose reckful hands down. I consider reckful to be the "pinnacle" of all rogues in WoW in 7 years of its history. Here's reckful's video of himself hitting 3000 rating with 117-4 record, versus other top players in the world. In terms of reaction speed, decision making, multi-tasking, awareness, and execution of strategies it is simply flawless. This video is the result of years of breeding / pitting the best players against each other, and could be what future players of SWTOR can achieve if arenas are added to the game.

 

 

[P.S. This video also proves the popularity of arenas. This video has over 2 million views, which makes it by far one of THE most watched WoW videos out there - more views than any of the 'world first kill' videos by any top PVE guilds. If you also see the uploader's (compLexity gaming) channel, it also has more views than all of compLexity gaming's starcraft 2 videos COMBINED.]

 

 

 

5. SWTOR arena will be EASIER to balance than WoW

 

If you see most popular and overpowered comps throughout WoW, it is usually things such as rogue/mage/priest, rogue/warlock/shaman, paladin/hunter/death knight, mage/warlock/shaman, etc etc.

 

In SWTOR, we won't see that kind of 'overpowered comps' and "unbeatable synergy" in WoW. Reason why certain classes synergized so well in WoW is because of the CC's and shared diminishing returns system, which caused certain classes to synergize far better with others. Therefore some classes have more viable comps, stronger comps, and inevitable class imbalance.

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, SWTOR is based on resolve system, and every class has some sort of stun or CC (on a cooldown). So I dont expect to see such exceptionally strong class synergy between any particular classes. In general, I expect ALL comps to be fully viable and competitive, as long as classes are balanced around 1v1! (important!)

 

 

 

6. Adding arenas will be FINANCIALLY productive for bioware

 

-Since its launch, Blizzard created 8 objective oriented battlegrounds like warzones in SWTOR. On average they have to constantly add 2~3 per expansion, and they aren't even that popular. Many players only play them to grind honor, and there are lot of bots and AFKers (theyre just that boring!)

 

 

-On the other hand, Blizzard added 3 arenas when they were launched in burning crusade expansion, and 2 more (which were unnecessary in my opinion) in WOTLK. Players have enjoyed these same maps for YEARS and they never got old. You never see players that claim arenas are boring and afk them.

 

 

-Overall, arena maps are much smaller and EASIER (and probably cheaper) to create than a whole new objective oriented warzone. Blizzard probably invested minuscule amount of capital into arenas compared to battlegrounds and open world PVP, and look what is more popular.

 

 

-Blizzard as a company, for some unknown reason, did not appear to like arenas. This is illustrated by their attempt to popularize rated battlegrounds in cataclysm. RBG's have been extremely unpopular in WoW btw, despite Blizzard's best efforts to increase player participation (awarding more conquest point in RBG's than arena per week, etc). Casuals don't like it because of amount of time and effort to find and set up a team. Pros don't like it because its nowhere near competitive as arenas. Despite Blizzard's "best efforts", RBG's have failed to "kill" arenas.

 

You can devote as much resources to design/program/add as many warzones as you want. They'll all eventually become 'stale' and repetitive after a while, and players will demand addition of new contents. However, every new arena game will appear fresh as players constantly face different opponents and new obstacles to overcome - even if they are held on the same map.

 

Logistically speaking arenas are cheaper, require less maintenance, and much more effective solution to satisfy PVPers needs than warzones are.

 

Bioware, just consider arenas as a ONE TIME INVESTMENT that will last for years to come.

 

I wanta arena so bad...it is what kept me playing wow for as long as I did. I miss playing against skilled players like venruki, sodah, rekful and all that. Those were some of the greatest matches in any game I have ever played. There is no better feeling then beating the wow fanboys #1 fans. The pvp community when you get to be a high rated player is so great also. We use to get on vent and just talk strategies, try new things, play new comps, it was truly the greatest experience and I wish for swtor players to go through what I loved so much. It really makes you a better player, hands down, without a question.

 

Please Bioware, put arenas in this game for some competitive gameplay.

 

AS the OP stated...rated warzones will be fine yes, for a little while only. Then they will just become stale and repetitive. Arenas on the other hand, change with different factors everyday. You have a new strategy for every single team you play even if its the same comp simply because people play different.

 

When we use to play rekful's rmp we would play it differently then if we played against killervirus or venruki. Everyone plays different, and thats what is so appealing about it.

 

Most people on these forums shoot it down, but if they don't provide a gear advantage, what is the big deal? The people who truly love arena hated the gear grind anyway. That's why the PTS and the arena tournys were so popular because you all had the same exact gear.

 

If you don't add a gear advantage, you guys will love it, I promise.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Cwild

Arenas are the most fun form of pvp I've played in any mmo. I played a shadowpriest during TBC and had a blast, even though I was one of the less ideal classes for arena I still did well and got gladiator. PLEASE bring arenas into this game, my guild has been organizing 3v3 and 4v4 events and its honestly the most fun I've had in this game so far. If your saying any different, chances are you are just bad. Sorry everyone can't be at the top of the ratings...or maybe they can with this awesome rated warzone idea bioware has...

/thread

I'm all for this. More PvP options will definitely retain interest in this game.

 

Anyone who is aganist the Arena PvP format, you don't have to participate.

 

Next; lets get some open world PvP objectives, sieges etc. that does not involve Ilum.

 

Everyone who has been against this idea and has posted on this thread doesn't really have a justified rebuttal against the Arena format other than 1v1. This game wasn't created for 1v1's, so I do see the legitimacy of this concern. Balancing is going to happen regardless of arena's or not, don't kid yourselves. Rated warzone's are going to fuel this fire. It's just a part of MMO's, nothing unprecedented.

Edited March 16, 2012 by venjinze

i think this game needs some sort of an arena as well. not because arena is all that but it would add another element to the game (which lets be honest, it really needs).

 

altho, im pretty sure you are aware of this, this game is nowhere balanced around a 2v2, 3v3 or even 4v4 deathmatch scenario. all you need to do is to run a setup of 3x pt 1x merc healer or something. the 3v3 tournament they had on some US server proved just that.

 

i guess this could be countered by having arena maps with different levels instead of a big round circle, but then it would be so map dependent, and well, random.

 

anyways, well thought post. and i agree, arena is needed, but the balance in this game is not good for it at the moment.

Glorified deathmatches does not belong to MMO.

 

Even modern shooters stray away from them.

You are minority here.

I stayed away from WoW with great success. Never played it, I do not know anything about it and I do not care to. All I hear is how crappy WoW was. Now why would I want this system if everyone complains that all Bioware is copying Blizzard and that this game is not WoW?

 

Ill roll with it either way I guess but from what I hear more people are against "arena" than those in favor or it.

the negative of adding arena this is what happen when you add 2v2 3v3 a 5v5 the devs have to balance around those numbers then that nice dps you were doing before in that operation or in the rated WZ goes bye bye. As they nerf your class to the ground cuz its a i win button in arena. Arenas were the worst pvp that blizzard ever added according to the blizzard developers. If the developer regrets adding said feature then i say no. If you want arena play WOW. Edited March 16, 2012 by Neoforcer

You don't have to stay in arenas all day for this, and thos who are really interested into PvP will endure something like 10 games a day/week (however bioware would set it).

 

Rating only matters if you have to shove your epeen with your gear. Some of us still do fine with only the second hand gear (champion gear right now).

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Well from what i see on this forums it is filled almost only with complaints too...

 

 

While I love PVP and have always loved PVP, I do not enjoy Arena much. I much preferred Rated Battlegrounds in WoW, sieges in DAOC, and other group oriented PVP of the sort. While I understand the desire for Arena combat, much of Arena is based on very fine tuning of class balance and we know classes will never be balanced. Arms warriors in WoW 2 seasons ago were massacring people. TSG was unbeatable for a time, ETC.

 

 

My request to BioWare would be:

 

- Feel free to implement arena's for those who really do enjoy and like them! I hope the arena's are of high quality and the class balances are done to a fairly effective level.

 

- (As I believe is planned) - 8 man Rated Warzones that all 8 can be pre-organized.

 

- Offer two sets of high end gear, one from Arena's and one from Warzones. This gear should be identical in stats thereby making them equal.

 

 

I would / will play the **** out of some Rated WZ's, but only will be found in Arena's if it is 100% required to max out points per week, and I would hate every second of it. (for the record, my highest arena rating was 2400, so while I wasn't the best, I also did not get straight pwned in it. My entire rating was earned ONLY because of the requirement to do it, and nothing more. Once I completed my Arena's each week I was done).

Glorified deathmatches does not belong to MMO.

 

Even modern shooters stray away from them.

You are minority here.

 

Yes, lets stick to the current model of ignoring objectives in warzones to kill each other as far away from the objective as possible ... I know I am not the only one who notices this in MMOs ...

 

The fact that this exists means there is a need for "Glorified deathmatches."

Edited March 16, 2012 by Anrix

Yes, please Bioware.

Add arenas and make them exactly like they are in WoW.

 

I mean, make perfect copies of the maps (maybe add some consoles and other sci-fi...stuff) and perfect copies of the classes, with lightsabers and blasters instead of whatever garbage they have on WoW.

 

 

This way you, Bioware, will be happy, because the hordes of WoW sheep will bring you untold riches.

The WoW turds will be happy because they are playing WoW all over again.

And pvpers looking for a proper pvp game will be happy because the WoW zerg will stay totally hooked to this game and away from GW2.

 

Win-win-win situation.

 

Please, arenas now.

Edited March 16, 2012 by ShizuXIII

Maybe the designers think arenas will be too intimidating.

Yes, please Bioware.

Add arenas and make them exactly like they are in WoW.

 

I mean, make perfect copies of the maps (maybe add some consoles and other sci-fi...stuff) and perfect copies of the classes, with lightsabers and blasters instead of whatever garbage they have on WoW.

 

 

This way you, Bioware, will be happy, because the hordes of WoW sheep will bring you untold riches.

The WoW turds will be happy because they are playing WoW all over again.

And pvpers looking for a proper pvp game will be happy because the WoW zerg will stay totally hooked to this game and away from GW2.

 

Win-win-win situation.

 

Please, arenas now.

You may get in trouble for this, friend, but I agree 200%

OP I couldnt agree more with everything you have said.

I would be overcome with joy, if they added an arena of any kind to this game.

 

I left WoW bc of all the BS and general uncaring nature Blizzard takes to all aspects of the game.

 

Blizzard has never tried to actually balance arenas, (Hunters always gimped, except in a few very niche comps)

It took them 5+ years to add a LFG system, where before if you wanted to do an instance you had to manually find 5 people and take a 3 hour flight to your destination (such fun I cannot describe it)

Spent tons of resources on a worthless professsion that no one wanted Archaeology

Basically the devs at blizzard do whatever the **** they want and point the middle finger to the community.

I dont want to support blizzard in anyway, but so far its the only MMO that has been able to retain subscribers.

 

IMO Bioware has created a fantastic game,and one of the best settings for an MMO to date. If they just made a few more changes to beef up the end game content, Id never go back wow,

 

TL;DR Blizzard can suck a ****, Bioware please add Arenas

i read every replies that get posted here. i see that some ignorant tools crawl in this thread,

 

But it is another arena thread?

 

Says so in the subject.

It has stars in the title and the key concepts are underlined.

It's not your ordinary arena thread.

Pay more attention, please.

Edited March 16, 2012 by ShizuXIII

You can already have organized dueling in Outlaw's Den so I'm not seeing the point.

I am not a fan of arena's I understand why some may want them but the only game to try and integrate arena's failed to do so correctly and now admit it was a mistake because it fractured the PVP player base. I would rather see Bioware develop Open World PVP where we could have large epic star wars battles. Arena's just would not feel epic to me and the only real race it would fit for would be Mandalorian. I could see them adding a dueling area where you can duel that would look like a arena you could use it to settle arguments or even for RP purposes for those that like to RP. But Arena's I feel would not fit the overall theme of Starwars for the most part

i spent 3 hours writing this post and this is your response? bet you didnt even take 2 minutes to read my post

 

i'll report your response as 'garbage'

 

Your use of stars in the thread title was flashy enough for me to like the idea without reading a word

 

 

And...I LOVE this idea! FULLY support arena PvP.