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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR


Seena

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By the way I do this. It is Spectacularly fun. I also have a level 50 in full War Hero gear (augmented etc.) SO I "put my big boy pants on" as well. I feel no Shame. None. I worked long and hard to make my Twink. I spent millions of credits on my twink. And I will proudly play him till I the game ceases to function.

 

I'm not going to go into the whole issue of that you're just essentially wasting your own time if you enter warzone and leave before it finishes, so you can perpetually stay lvl49. Others have done that already for me.

 

I will, however, call you out on one thing. You are abandoning your teammates for your own selfish reasons (to avoid getting experience) and bailing on your teammates is wrong.

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Cool Story Bro.

 

 

 

 

*sighs* I keep saying I'm done and then I give into the urge to laugh at someone's willful ignorance. Sorry, it seems your thread got a little hijacked on what qualifies as an exploit. However, I do have something relevant to add:

 

I believe someone might have mentioned this before, but I think whether to "fix" this issue or just as a good feature to add to pvp, medals should give exp when received. I would reduce the exp reward at the end by 10% or so, and then add scaling exp rewards per medal that equal out to that 10%.

 

I'm open to anyone who can point out something I missed, but of any leveling activity PvP is the only one that doesn't give full rewards till it's completed. Quests have mobs, activities and bonuses that give exp even if you drop the quest instead of turning it in. Flashpoints are the same. Space missions give a little exp per enemy destroyed as well as contianing bonuses, etc... Even exploration grants small amounts of exp when encountering a new area or accessing a new "codex." Adding small activity related exp in pvp would only bring it more in line with other level related activities.

 

I'd love to hear (not directed at you Seena) a reason the inclussion of experience for medals (capping at 8 as normal) when you receive them isn't a good thing, even just from an equality of "playstyles" standpoint.

 

Meh, getting sucked back in.... happens to the best of us, especially with the rampant... um... challenges...

 

:D

 

I've learned to just put certain people on ignore. Took me awhile to learn this, but it is very effective.

 

I think the exp award with medals is an excellent, (non resource intensive I'd think?) solution.

 

 

As for the hijacking and the definition of exploit. You know, I never thought anyone would try to argue this isn't an exploit or that it's actually an intended game mechanic. Imo that's just ludicrous - and I usually don't contemplate the absurd as a possibility ;)

 

What I did anticipate was the requisite "you're just jealous of twinks" "learn to play" "move to level 50" comments - and the vehement defense of using said exploit (because it's "harmless") -- while vehemently denying use of said exploit by said defender.

 

One of the reasons I usually avoid the forums... ;)

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Medals wouldn't be a bad idea. make it 8 medals = 40 comms and half of exp character would gain in case of lost (so my disconnected character will get some exp and comms, but it can't be exploited in getting more comms for less time, or more comms to less exp etc)

Math person should do some math on ratio, problem solved..

I still don't agree it's an exploit, I agree to 'fix' as I hate to get DC 1 minute before WZ ends on my leveling character...

Edited by Atramar
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Only problem with medal giving comms and exp is,. that it rewards people who leave warzone.... and can encourage ppl in leaving....

 

I would definitely agree they should not give comms, leaving a warzone is suppose to have a penalty.

 

I do think however, exp given when a medal is obtained wouldn't encouraged people to leave as long as the exp is marginal compared to the end result. For example:

 

I just hit 50 on my operative and my last level as about 450,000 exp needed. Without any kind of exp booster I averaged 20,000 exp per warzone (at an average of 12 minutes a game not including wait times).

 

I said 10% earlier, but even 20% of 20,000 is 4,000. Divided by a maximum 8 medals, and we're talking 500 exp a medal (Which is about the same as your standard trash mob pack). I guess the question would be how fast can you obtain those 8 medals, and is it worth it to quit after that and try for another warzone. Without further data I can not make that determination completely, but I'd wager a guess "No."

 

Btw: at 20,000 exp per match, that's about 22.5 matches to ding. Someone wishing to prolong their 49-hood would have to a.) Suck so bad they didn't get maximum medals and b.) be able to prolong their stay to 112.5 matches assuming they did get maximum medals. =P Still plenty of time to "get their money's worth" for all the credits they blew on being "49-gods."

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Medals giving exp only but not comms is a penalty to disconnected people who not only level thro WZ but gather comms not to be recruits on start.

well, if a lost game with 8 medals = 20k exp and 80 comms, leaving (or being disconected/crashed) would give (let's say) 5k exp and 20 comms.

 

thoughts?

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Medals giving exp only but not comms is a penalty to disconnected people who not only level thro WZ but gather comms not to be recruits on start.

well, if a lost game with 8 medals = 20k exp and 80 comms, leaving (or being disconected/crashed) would give (let's say) 5k exp and 20 comms.

 

thoughts?

 

I'd still shy away from giving comms. The basis for this change would be an over all equality of "activity" (PvE, PvP, Space, etc...) rewarding partial completion. Since Comms (no matter the ammount) are useful in obtaining gear, giving comms for partial and/or disconnect completion would unbalance it.

 

A thought had occured though, as I've seen posts before asking for warzone credit rates to be raised as they are sub-oar compared to the "PvE Dallies" one could add credits onto the medals as well instead of dailies. You manage 8 medals but discconect before the match? Sadly no comms for you, but atleast you get 4-5k exp and some credits.

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Cool Story Bro.

Check-mate.

 

It is anecdotal because you choose to interpret all that crap for your own purpose. I can do it in reverse, but we get nowhere. To put it simply, there is nothing in ToS, ToU, EULA, dev tracker and anything you want to name in regards to this issue. Nothing whatsoever. So instead of thinking this is a non-issue for BW, you choose to believe that "OMG, this is an exploit and they're covering it up !!!". Tin foil hat off, please. Be objective for a change.

 

If you really cared about "freedom of choice" you'd petition bioware for an inclusion of an "exp/rewards" toggle so you could finish a warzone and actually see who won and your score. As you also haven't read or understood a word I said about my opinion on this "seriousness" of this issue and apparently Official Bioware Articles, Official Bioware Posts, the ToS, and Industry Relevant articles are ancedotal in your eyes, I will not waste my time.

BW has more important things to tweak than this crap. This is low-prio at best or a non-issue at worst. Industry relevant crap is irrelevant crap. Again, if you point me out to the dev/CM that said "leaving WZs is an exploit, not a feature" then we can discuss about that. No, all you have is a "feeling" that it's wrong and against... whatever misplaced sense of morality you have in your mind. World doesn't revolve around you and what you "feel" is right or wrong, and we're all free to play and do whatever we want to do. Deal with it or kindly take your escape pod.

 

They never said it, and if it was considered an exploit it wouldn't take a year to fix it. This is the truth. Unless, of course, you think they're idiots or incompetent or there's a conspiracy or something.

 

*sighs* I keep saying I'm done and then I give into the urge to laugh at someone's willful ignorance. Sorry, it seems your thread got a little hijacked on what qualifies as an exploit. However, I do have something relevant to add:

 

I believe someone might have mentioned this before, but I think whether to "fix" this issue or just as a good feature to add to pvp, medals should give exp when received. I would reduce the exp reward at the end by 10% or so, and then add scaling exp rewards per medal that equal out to that 10%.

 

I'm open to anyone who can point out something I missed, but of any leveling activity PvP is the only one that doesn't give full rewards till it's completed. Quests have mobs, activities and bonuses that give exp even if you drop the quest instead of turning it in. Flashpoints are the same. Space missions give a little exp per enemy destroyed as well as contianing bonuses, etc... Even exploration grants small amounts of exp when encountering a new area or accessing a new "codex." Adding small activity related exp in pvp would only bring it more in line with other level related activities.

 

I'd love to hear (not directed at you Seena) a reason the inclussion of experience for medals (capping at 8 as normal) when you receive them isn't a good thing, even just from an equality of "playstyles" standpoint.

 

Here's one reason: with some ACs, i can get to 8 medals quite fast. What's stopping me from leaving the match and queue for the next one to get more xp and comms ? I don't think this would be a problem for lowbie pvp, but lvl 50 pvp is a grind (and will remain so until 1.6 and maybe even further). So if someone pvps not for fun, but for gear, the best comms/hour grind is to quickly rack up 8 medals then leave and go for the next. Of course, this is bad practice, right ? So you'd have to come up with some rules against this kind of behavior. Then you'd have to be real careful about these rules so they won't screw over those that leave the match for benign reasons -- disconnects, emergencies, whatever.

 

I know it seems simple, and i wouldn't mind it -- heck, just last week i had a great VS match where my merc got like 6-7 medals in the first 3 mins on the attacking side, but then the food i ordered showed up, had to take it and pay the delivery guy, it took a little more than 2 mins and that was that. So i learned not to do that when i pvp. It wasn't the system that was flawed, it was my choice. Don't fix what isn't broken or you risk breaking stuff that wasn't.

 

Everyone can do what they want in the current setting, and BW's attention should be directed toward other more important things than an XP lock.

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I've learned to just put certain people on ignore. Took me awhile to learn this, but it is very effective.

 

I think the exp award with medals is an excellent, (non resource intensive I'd think?) solution.

 

Sadly without insider knowledge of Bioware's coding, code team, resources, and time constraints we can't really tell how resource intensive a solution would be, but I imagine something as simple as +500 exp when X happens can't be too hard.

 

I would suggest putting a post in the suggesiton forum for this.

 

Also, if you haven't already and really feel strongly about this issue, you can ticket/report people you suspect of this and explain in that ticket what they're doing. You'll gain more ground if you watch them for awhile and note down the warzones and the times you see them leave. Bioware may do nothing, but they are the ones with the ability to see if there is a pattern.

 

As for the hijacking and the definition of exploit. You know, I never thought anyone would try to argue this isn't an exploit or that it's actually an intended game mechanic. Imo that's just ludicrous - and I usually don't contemplate the absurd as a possibility ;)

 

What I did anticipate was the requisite "you're just jealous of twinks" "learn to play" "move to level 50" comments - and the vehement defense of using said exploit (because it's "harmless") -- while vehemently denying use of said exploit by said defender.

 

One of the reasons I usually avoid the forums... ;)

 

Because the definiton of "Exploit" is so broad (as is the one for "Intended") most issues like this fall into a grey category. There is no literature that I've found that prohibits someone leaving for this reason, and many people take the stance "If it doesn't say I -can't- do it, then I can!"

 

I found the same problem in Tera with their political system and Guild vs. Guild. A few guilds made alt guilds when Tera introduced "Open World GvG contests to control territory" and just farmed their alts to win, while hiding from legitmate guilds. There was nothing in the "rules" that stated you couldn't register two guilds and farm them. Tera's Dev's laughed, told those guilds they should have know better and then punished them.

 

Also, if you haven't already and really feel strongly about this issue, you can ticket/report people you suspect of this and explain in that ticket what they're doing. You'll gain more ground if you watch them for awhile and note down the warzones and the times you see them leave. Bioware may do nothing, but they are the ones with the ability to see if there is a pattern.

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Check-mate.

*snip*

 

Cool story bro.

 

What's stopping me from leaving the match and queue for the next one to get more xp and comms.

 

My post says exp only, at a marginal amount compared to the end result exp, just as questing or space missions give marginal amounts of exp for mobs/ships during the activity, with a larger sum at the end.

 

Another poster mentioned comms too, and I fully disagree with awarding those till the end for the exact reason you stated.

 

Edit: But If I'm reading the last portion of your post correctly, I'm glad you agree it's a simple fix as long as handled properly, and it would work in favor of all. Sure you ordered food when trying to pvp and you had to leave, (I'm assuming sub 50, or it would be pointless any way in a +exp only system) but it would be nice if you received -some- exp for that 6-7 medal effort, much as if you had started a flashpoint, mashed your way almost to the first boss and realized your stove was on fire.

Edited by Doomsdaycomes
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To be honest. I don't see this 49 "twink" problem at all, me and my friend (I'm a Gunslinger and he's a Trooper) PVP A LOT so suffice to say we have run into plenty of these lvl 49... And I haven't had any trouble killing them at lvl 21 with no pvp gear at all or anything like that. I can (and often do tbh) dominate them. So I can't see what all this fuzz is about. I don't think these people need to "put on their big boy pants" as much as you need to stop seeing down a narrow tunnel. Let them play how they want to play the game, and you play your way. They're not overpowered in any way (unless the player is good but that is the case from 18-49).
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As long as there's a 200 hour plus grind to gear up to be on a level playing field at 50- don't expect people to be so eager to get into this. Especially players who might only play one or two hours a day due to work, family, etc....- for them that grind can take months.

 

There will always be twinking in any game that has absurd gear discrepancies- and even so, level 49 twinks still have a far less significant advantage over level 20-25ish players (frankly, entering pvp before 20 is asking to get served) than optimized, augmented WH versus new recruits.

 

I don't even do this twinking thing- I almost do nothing but pvp on my level 20-30 alts because it's fun and feels balanced even at that level after dealing with the extreme TTK of 50 and the marauder root and smash trains. Yet, I see no problem with people that do this- they know full well level 50 pvp is brutal- even level 50 players all agree, look at the forums, you see almost nobody (outside marauders) saying good things about level 50 pvp.

 

Seems like they're the smart ones actually.

 

problem is there not even gearing themself up in prep for 50 pvp as there getting no rewards so all there twinks and gear changes in end count for nothing because simply put eventually they will always have a gear gap at 50. so they pvp and leave so they dont have to get lvl 50 coz they running scared of paying there dews and earning there pvp gear. and running away from 50 pvp jsut because of gear gaps is pritty cowardly imo id rather hit lvl 50 get recruit gear and get owned than stay lvl 49 with pruple gear and look good in lowbies as anyone can look good in a lowbie wz to do well in recruit gear in a wz now that is real skill

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Sadly without insider knowledge of Bioware's coding, code team, resources, and time constraints we can't really tell how resource intensive a solution would be, but I imagine something as simple as +500 exp when X happens can't be too hard.

 

I would suggest putting a post in the suggesiton forum for this.

 

Also, if you haven't already and really feel strongly about this issue, you can ticket/report people you suspect of this and explain in that ticket what they're doing. You'll gain more ground if you watch them for awhile and note down the warzones and the times you see them leave. Bioware may do nothing, but they are the ones with the ability to see if there is a pattern.

 

 

 

Because the definiton of "Exploit" is so broad (as is the one for "Intended") most issues like this fall into a grey category. There is no literature that I've found that prohibits someone leaving for this reason, and many people take the stance "If it doesn't say I -can't- do it, then I can!"

 

I found the same problem in Tera with their political system and Guild vs. Guild. A few guilds made alt guilds when Tera introduced "Open World GvG contests to control territory" and just farmed their alts to win, while hiding from legitmate guilds. There was nothing in the "rules" that stated you couldn't register two guilds and farm them. Tera's Dev's laughed, told those guilds they should have know better and then punished them.

 

Also, if you haven't already and really feel strongly about this issue, you can ticket/report people you suspect of this and explain in that ticket what they're doing. You'll gain more ground if you watch them for awhile and note down the warzones and the times you see them leave. Bioware may do nothing, but they are the ones with the ability to see if there is a pattern.

 

I honestly don't want to start reporting people. The point isn't to go after individuals - just fix the exploit. Some of those who are planning to do this/actively doing it are people I actually like and pvp with regularly - and there's something - well -- less than kosher about selectively reporting people, so, imo it's better to not single out individuals.

 

As for the action falling into a "grey category" as an exploit -- not buying it. Not buying it one bit. But I totally understand people trying to rationalize crap behavior - it's human nature ;)

 

:D

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Ohhh I will work VERY VERY long and hard to do what ever I can to make sure this is fixed. :)

 

As for whining about warzones and knowing of tactics - I'm not the one using an exploit to stay level 49 in perpetuity and spending millions to beat up on lower level toons now, am I? ;)

 

Seena,

 

I personally don't see this as an exploit. You are entitled to your opinion. This is after all America. However, as I peruse this thread I feel that perhaps you are spending an inordinate amount of time to address this issue. By the way what is the ethical difference between a 49 Twink pwning lvl 30 dudes in greens and a Lvl 50 in full min/maxed pvp Elite War Hero gear pwning a noob fifty in recruit gear. People stand much more of a chance against my twink then they do against a full elite war hero dude while wearing recruit gear.

Edited by Beakertanks
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I'm not going to go into the whole issue of that you're just essentially wasting your own time if you enter warzone and leave before it finishes, so you can perpetually stay lvl49. Others have done that already for me.

 

I will, however, call you out on one thing. You are abandoning your teammates for your own selfish reasons (to avoid getting experience) and bailing on your teammates is wrong.

 

How does it hurt his team if a 49 leaves at the end of a match? I haven't played my twink in a while, but I'm pretty sure you don't actually get the xp until the scoreboard pops up. There's a long enough delay when game ends and the board pops for anyone to easily leave WZ.

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Seena,

 

I personally don't see this as an exploit. You are entitled to your opinion. This is after all America. However, as I peruse this thread I feel that perhaps you are spending an inordinate amount of time to address this issue. By the way what is the ethical difference between a 49 Twink pwning lvl 30 dudes in greens and a Lvl 50 in full min/maxed pvp Elite War Hero gear pwning a noob fifty in recruit gear. People stand much more of a chance against my twink then they do against a full elite war hero dude while wearing recruit gear.

 

 

You are 100% correct. I am entitled to my opinion. And don't you worry about how I spend my time sweetie -- that's very kind of you, but I have it all under control.

 

Now - instead of wasting YOUR time in my thread -- why don't you take your twink, gained through exploiting (vs a legitimate twink, of which there are plenty), and go beat up some low levels instead of asking questions with moot answers?

 

:;pats you on the head:: So sweet you are to worry about how I spend my time... would you like a cookie?

Edited by Seena
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Cool Story Bro.

 

 

 

If you really cared about "freedom of choice" you'd petition bioware for an inclusion of an "exp/rewards" toggle so you could finish a warzone and actually see who won and your score. As you also haven't read or understood a word I said about my opinion on this "seriousness" of this issue and apparently Official Bioware Articles, Official Bioware Posts, the ToS, and Industry Relevant articles are ancedotal in your eyes, I will not waste my time.

 

 

 

*sighs* I keep saying I'm done and then I give into the urge to laugh at someone's willful ignorance. Sorry, it seems your thread got a little hijacked on what qualifies as an exploit. However, I do have something relevant to add:

 

I believe someone might have mentioned this before, but I think whether to "fix" this issue or just as a good feature to add to pvp, medals should give exp when received. I would reduce the exp reward at the end by 10% or so, and then add scaling exp rewards per medal that equal out to that 10%.

 

I'm open to anyone who can point out something I missed, but of any leveling activity PvP is the only one that doesn't give full rewards till it's completed. Quests have mobs, activities and bonuses that give exp even if you drop the quest instead of turning it in. Flashpoints are the same. Space missions give a little exp per enemy destroyed as well as contianing bonuses, etc... Even exploration grants small amounts of exp when encountering a new area or accessing a new "codex." Adding small activity related exp in pvp would only bring it more in line with other level related activities.

 

I'd love to hear (not directed at you Seena) a reason the inclussion of experience for medals (capping at 8 as normal) when you receive them isn't a good thing, even just from an equality of "playstyles" standpoint.

 

People might actually take you more seriously if you actually followed through on your convictions. How many times have you said you're done posting here, and come back? Like 4 times now? Dude man, learn some self control. It'll help you in life.

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Oh and I would totally support changing it so each medal you get gives you a bit of xp, comms, valor, and credits.

 

Having medals only give xp does NOT help 50s who DC. I mean this is why we want this change right? To improve WZs right? And not just punish only 1%--or however small--of the population that stays 49.

Edited by Smashbrother
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Oh and I would totally support changing it so each medal you get gives you a bit of xp, comms, valor, and credits.

 

Having medals only give xp does NOT help 50s who DC. I mean this is why we want this change right? To improve WZs right? And not just punish only 1%--or however small--of the population that stays 49.

 

This is the internet... no one takes anyone seriously. -.- I especially don't take anyone seriously who shows a lack of reasoning skills, reading comprehension, or common sense.

 

Onto the subject at hand:

 

My stated reason for the change actually is to bring PvP in line with other leveling related activities... which give exp for smaller tasks during the course of the activity (Questing, Class Missions, Flashpoints, and Space).

 

As the other poster brought up, Instant +comms could have people leaving if they can receive them fast enough (or if they are enough per) and it's quicker to get in a new match than it is to finish this one. I however suggested adding a +credit gain for the medals, as one of the complaints I've seen post 50 is how poorly PvP pays compared to PvE. I believe a +Exp and +Credits instantly upon receiving a medal (capping at 8 like post-wz rewards) would do nicely.

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the above statement in pink will follow you for the rest of your life..

 

I worked hard and long when crafting my WH character and put my "big boy/girl pants on".

 

See? It still won't follow me in life. If I have to spell it out for you:

Twinking implies will not follow me

"legit" WH implies will not follow me

 

therefore, I conclude that twinking or getting legit wh is irrelevant to whether or not it follows me and your post is invalid :)

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