So you believe EA thinks this game has a future? You think this game is being developed in a manner that isn't below functional?

 

We all should be mad that this game is still a sub2play at all.

Then unsub...

Then unsub...

What makes you think I'm subbed? Sad part is I would like to be.

What makes you think I'm subbed? Sad part is I would like to be.

You can't post if you aren't subbed... lol

At this point confirming that we are not similar people is pointless, and honestly personal attacks aren't cathartic are they? I don't gain anything from attacking low lives, but maybe you guys have bad taste in social interaction as well as gaming.

That is a bit rich from someone who hasn't shied away from ad hominems himself.

The reality is that SWTOR focused a lot more on the solo players with the last two expansions. I personally believe they could've gotten away with it but they ruined it for themselves with GC. Sure they've done a lot since releasing that preposterous gearing system to change it to something more viable but let's be honest, it's still a bit of a mess.

Bringing out more group content again seems to be the new policy. It's certainly not at high speed but it's a clear change in direction. There are still a few major issues in various parts in the game like raiding, like pvp, like housing, like GSF that need to be addressed. And BW certainly don't seem to have the resources currently to do all that and certainly not within a timely fashion.

But please, stop dishing out accusations when you seem to be one of the biggest offenders yourself. You've certainly not held back in lashing out at people with rather condescending and hateful replies. It's gotten a tad distasteful really.

You can't post if you aren't subbed... lol

didn't know that, guess it will be running out soon... that's a poor choice to not allow your whole player base to speak on matters of the game.... maybe that's a reason you can't get a lot of them back...

Literally ten pages of people force-feeding the troll that is dontbeswg. Mf gotta have a fois gras liver by now. What are any of you continuously responding to the troll hoping to accomplish here? Can we just ignore it and keep the thread on track?

I think the thread is on track, having a pretty strong discussion about whether the game is better off on it's course or needs to take a strong turn back toward multiplayer content.

I lol'd at the diseased liver.

That is a bit rich from someone who hasn't shied away from ad hominems himself.

Of the few people who post here, I'm slightly surprised you're feeding.

The reality is that SWTOR focused a lot more on the solo players with the last two expansions. I personally believe they could've gotten away with it but they ruined it for themselves with GC. Sure they've done a lot since releasing that preposterous gearing system to change it to something more viable but let's be honest, it's still a bit of a mess.

I'm in two minds here, if they had released an operation or two (this is coming from a non-raider) then perhaps they may well have managed to get away with it. Instead they spent millions on a trailer? It's great they're advertising the game, but the mismatch of the budget between marketing and developing needs re-balancing.

I think most people know my views on GC, great in some respects for the casual players, very poorly implemented and still lots of developer time to be wasted bringing it to anywhere near the standard it should have launched at. The lack of polish or forethought shows with GC. I still have no idea what BioWare were thinking, theoretically it should have saved them developer time longer time.

Maybe they'll listen to feedback prior to making monumental mistakes like this in the future. Who knows.

Bringing out more group content again seems to be the new policy. It's certainly not at high speed but it's a clear change in direction. There are still a few major issues in various parts in the game like raiding, like pvp, like housing, like GSF that need to be addressed. And BW certainly don't seem to have the resources currently to do all that and certainly not within a timely fashion.

While the new direction and refocus onto group content is definitely welcome, I also think they need to be producing story content as well. Let alone taking a time out to fix all of the bugs in the game. Goes right back to the polish comment above. I expect better from a BioWare studio, which is why when it comes to any new releases by any BioWare studio (even if merged), the chances are I'll hold off completely.

The reality is that SWTOR focused a lot more on the solo players with the last two expansions. I personally believe they could've gotten away with it but they ruined it for themselves with GC. Sure they've done a lot since releasing that preposterous gearing system to change it to something more viable but let's be honest, it's still a bit of a mess.

 

Bringing out more group content again seems to be the new policy. It's certainly not at high speed but it's a clear change in direction. There are still a few major issues in various parts in the game like raiding, like pvp, like housing, like GSF that need to be addressed. And BW certainly don't seem to have the resources currently to do all that and certainly not within a timely fashion.

 

You're exactly right, I would appreciate EA allowing Keith to be realistic with us. I know that would be suicide for them to come out and admit that they don't have the man power and budget to bring this game back to the level it was at it's zenith (budget and development) however it would be nice to know what they are realistically capable of at this point of delivering not just where they want to go in the short term.

As far as ad hominem usage, you know at times it's appropriate (yes that is contradictory). In this case the character of the user base is in-line with the choices they make about what they enjoy playing and championing. Its not a nice argument to have but it's a necessary one that if players decide to abandon the community aspect of these games they will die out and in fact they may be dead.

The short and long of it, people have opinions they are passionate about, at this point if you want to engage me in conversation truly consider whether making this game more single player is the best option. For those of you who agree the multiplayer aspect needs to be furthered, speak up... I guess...

I think you made my last request mute with the fact that this might be the top speed of development from this point on, which is sadly just not going to cut it.

I'm in two minds here, if they had released an operation or two (this is coming from a non-raider) then perhaps they may well have managed to get away with it. Instead they spent millions on a trailer? It's great they're advertising the game, but the mismatch of the budget between marketing and developing needs re-balancing..

The larger question is whether people were coming to play a star wars game because of the movies or did the trailer bring in a lot of new players on it's on? I think the trailer really did make a lot of people curious about the game, however the error is that they made a hallow game.

If this game released 2 new operations in 4.0 and 5.0, this game would not be in the shape it is in. The decision to not release ops was the wrong one considering they had the budget to make the story content they did.

I think most people know my views on GC, great in some respects for the casual players

This logic really doesn't line up, ultimately you spend more time grinding CXP than you would learning how to play your class, joining a guild, and raiding mid level content or hell even story if you want to casually do... whatever the heck casual players do. I don't understand why players that do anything beyond flashpoints or heroics need top tier gear when crafted pieces or story tier gear will do...

While the new direction and refocus onto group content is definitely welcome, I also think they need to be producing story content as well.

They are releasing story content at a speed no different than any other point in the game history. What you are asking for is more than they usually do. You seem to have an understanding that Bioware is under staffing and budgeting this game...

I would love the chance to argue to EA that they have two paths: 1) close shop on this game and try again with another star wars mmo that has a better engine and more modern features (open world, organic RP, etc) or

2) Bring the budget back up to a triple A level mmo and fully develop the game.

You're exactly right, I would appreciate EA allowing Keith to be realistic with us. I know that would be suicide for them to come out and admit that they don't have the man power and budget to bring this game back to the level it was at it's zenith (budget and development) however it would be nice to know what they are realistically capable of at this point of delivering not just where they want to go in the short term.

 

As far as ad hominem usage, you know at times it's appropriate (yes that is contradictory). In this case the character of the user base is in-line with the choices they make about what they enjoy playing and championing. Its not a nice argument to have but it's a necessary one that if players decide to abandon the community aspect of these games they will die out and in fact they may be dead.

 

The short and long of it, people have opinions they are passionate about, at this point if you want to engage me in conversation truly consider whether making this game more single player is the best option. For those of you who agree the multiplayer aspect needs to be furthered, speak up... I guess...

 

I think you made my last request mute with the fact that this might be the top speed of development from this point on, which is sadly just not going to cut it.

It might indeed be a moot point because it's unclear what, if anything, will move EAware to invest more into this game as far as resources are concerned. I stopped buying cartel packs a year ago because I saw it as an investment into the game and I didn't see them investing their revenue back into the development of the game. So giving them more money doesn't seem to help.

I don't believe ad hominems actually work because they invariably lead to taking the conversation away from the topic. Also if that truly is your opinion, then just stick to using them without accusing others of doing the same. It's not that you use ad hominems but what I find rather inconsistent is that you use ad hominems and accuse others of using them. In my logic you can only take a moral high ground if you stick to it yourself.

What we have learned from 5.0 is that BW can be obstinate but that the GC system as it released drove a lot of people away. I remember how quickly they were there with livestreams and promises to make changes to it. That was very uncharacteristic of BW so it was clear that 5.0 was poorly received overall. They also changed their direction to group content. It's a a slow rate but the new ops bosses are challenging at least and we'll get a new FP that seems to be a tough one as well.

Group content aside (which I think is essential in an MMO), what this game lacked most was challenge. Everything (except some of the harder raiding content) had become soo easy, it became meaningless. So in that sense I am glad to see that some meaning is starting to come back to the game again.

Of the few people who post here, I'm slightly surprised you're feeding.

Because I have reasons to believe he's not simply trolling.

I'm in two minds here, if they had released an operation or two (this is coming from a non-raider) then perhaps they may well have managed to get away with it. Instead they spent millions on a trailer? It's great they're advertising the game, but the mismatch of the budget between marketing and developing needs re-balancing.

Well, at the time they were focused on their story and I think it was a last ditch attempt to get people into the game. You do that with marketing. I personally enjoyed the video and by the end of KotET, the one positive thing out of the story (except for the Valkorion soap to be over with) is the development of Vaylin, who then ironically gets killed off. That was the biggest mistake they made.

I don't think it's a mismatch between budgets, I think there is money if they want there to be. It's just that EAware doesn't want to invest too much into development of the game. I think in fact the success of the cartel packs let them get away with that for quite a while. Because even with a low population they were turning a nice profit. So why get better then? Until 5.0 hit and they singlehandedly caused a near death experience with galactic command and ostracizing f2p/preferred players from endgame completely.

I think most people know my views on GC, great in some respects for the casual players, very poorly implemented and still lots of developer time to be wasted bringing it to anywhere near the standard it should have launched at. The lack of polish or forethought shows with GC. I still have no idea what BioWare were thinking, theoretically it should have saved them developer time longer time.

GC would have been extremely successful as an addition to raid and pvp gearing. The mistake was making it one system for all. GC should've rewarded completing quests (story, side, heroic...all of them), it should've rewarded FPs (making them relevant again) and basically every single activity that exists outside of warzones and operations. Those two should have kept the 4.0 gearing system MINUS the priority ops.

Maybe they'll listen to feedback prior to making monumental mistakes like this in the future. Who knows.

 

While the new direction and refocus onto group content is definitely welcome, I also think they need to be producing story content as well. Let alone taking a time out to fix all of the bugs in the game. Goes right back to the polish comment above. I expect better from a BioWare studio, which is why when it comes to any new releases by any BioWare studio (even if merged), the chances are I'll hold off completely.

Agreed. There still needs to be story and there still needs to be polish and QoL stuff happening. But story at the expense of pretty much everything else puts too much pressure on the story and knowing that you can't please everyone with a single story line, it's like putting all your eggs in one basket while knowing a lot of people won't go near that basket.

There seems to be a lack of thinkers at BW. People who can do impact analyses you know.

It might indeed be a moot point because it's unclear what, if anything, will move EAware to invest more into this game as far as resources are concerned. I stopped buying cartel packs a year ago because I saw it as an investment into the game and I didn't see them investing their revenue back into the development of the game. So giving them more money doesn't seem to help.

The direction of this game in 4.0 was planned out by EA, I think starting in 4.0 the game was designed to be operated cheaper and front loaded (content early with trickle of it late). It has become clear that their resources for the mmo division are in Anthem. They are even having review companies hype it as a "star wars type universe". Sadly, they seem not understand nothing beats the real mccoy, and they would have been better off ending the life of this game and rolling over to a new one. I would love to see an inheritance feature, I've suggested this for WoW, have whatever character line you create in their new game receive benefits (money/rewards) for playing the previous game (more for those with further investment).

I don't believe ad hominems actually work because they invariably lead to taking the conversation away from the topic. Also if that truly is your opinion, then just stick to using them without accusing others of doing the same. It's not that you use ad hominems but what I find rather inconsistent is that you use ad hominems and accuse others of using them. In my logic you can only take a moral high ground if you stick to it yourself.

I'm truly angry at players for what happened during 4.0, it's like seeing a crime take place and cheering. What upsets me the most is this venom toward raiders and pvpers. These groups don't ever say eliminate story or content they deem stupid, but these groups of players that enjoy that content love to spit out that raiding and pvp content go away... all because they are upset with their inability to play those aspects of the game. Other games don't allow players with mediocre abilities to dictate the direction of the game, but these do, and it's maddening. Not saying I'm morally superior, I have a condo on a lake front in hades... but I'm sure a lot of these saints in here will be slumming it down there with me

What we have learned from 5.0 is that BW can be obstinate but that the GC system as it released drove a lot of people away. I remember how quickly they were there with livestreams and promises to make changes to it. That was very uncharacteristic of BW so it was clear that 5.0 was poorly received overall. They also changed their direction to group content. It's a a slow rate but the new ops bosses are challenging at least and we'll get a new FP that seems to be a tough one as well.

EA is a poorly run triple A company, they have been for the 3 decades I have consumed their games even though they have some of the greatest franchises under their house. I think they were sold a bill of goods by Ben Irvin that this crate system would net them overwatch popularity, and like any con man that is found out... he was executed.

Again, Anthem is there focus now... let's pray they make another star wars mmo in the near near feature if at all.

Group content aside (which I think is essential in an MMO), what this game lacked most was challenge. Everything (except some of the harder raiding content) had become soo easy, it became meaningless. So in that sense I am glad to see that some meaning is starting to come back to the game again.

Two things have to happen for the game to get harder: 1) The skilled player base needs to return or the more and less likely 2) The current player base gets better...

Here again is where my frustration, over a decade of mmo game playing frustration, lies... too many players of these types of games refuse to improve. I don't understand it... I don't get the refusal to "get good". This has nothing to do with casual... people casually read!

The internet is full of information, this forum bank you are using to whine at me has tons of information and where to consume more... these can all be absorbed and applied at a minimally invasive means. The "casual player" plays often enough (1-3 days a week 30-45 minutes a day) this is more than enough time to apply 10-15 minutes of reading information.

With this in mind,the conclusion can only be a willful refusal to improvement... but as many of you point out you don't care that it causes others harm.

In my game play lifetime, I would love to cure this mmo epidemic I guess I'm not the guy but I'm sure as heck not wrong that this is the root of the problem that plagues these games.

Because I have reasons to believe he's not simply trolling.

I'm really not trolling, I may not be accurate on accusations but I am pretty mad about the state of the game and those who encourage the path back to 4.0.

 

Agreed. There still needs to be story and there still needs to be polish and QoL stuff happening. But story at the expense of pretty much everything else puts too much pressure on the story

This is what I keep trying to emphasize. Even single player games have a shelf life and if you think about it huge gaps between sequels! This game really has released more story content, even prior to 4.0, than a lot of single player games prior to DLC.

These games can't budget, even if they are thriving, to come out with single player and multiplayer content at a clip that pleases both. I keep saying this, and whether it is popular you have to think about it....

MULTIPLAYER GAMES NEED TO FOCUS ON MULTIPLAYER CONTENT FIRST!

MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAMES THAT AREN'T MASSIVE AREN'T DON'T MAKE SENSE AND DIE

I get that this game had the desire to bridge the game between a single player game and a multiplayer, but 1.0 really showed it was a pipedream to ignore multiplayer.

I really hope Anthem brings in a sandbox feel to games, but again they are really missing out on the star wars property.

I honestly would love to see Disney try their hand at a star wars or even a marvel mmo, I think Disney would be able to take ILM/Pixar/Lucas parts and make one heck of a game dev company, and with the properties they own they could make some interesting games.

I think the hard part to accept about the theme park mmo is that it's days are in the past, and this game is rooted in theme park. There really isn't many other places (WoW has the same issue) that a game with an outdated theme, an outdated engine, and an exhausted player base can go.

 

MULTIPLAYER GAMES NEED TO FOCUS ON MULTIPLAYER CONTENT FIRST!

 

MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAMES THAT AREN'T MASSIVE AREN'T DON'T MAKE SENSE AND DIE

No the game needs both, I am not saying Bioware were right by focusing on just story but your idea of multiplayer content first wont work either, the game requires casuals who love star wars games, your idea would drive a number away from this game because they dont want a traditional MMO, even if you got some swtor MMO players back its such a small niche (star wars fans who love MMO's) that potentially the game would be in a worse position than it is now because it would rely on such a small fan base.

No the game needs both, I am not saying Bioware were right by focusing on just story but your idea of multiplayer content first wont work either, the game requires casuals who love star wars games, your idea would drive a number away from this game because they dont want a traditional MMO, even if you got some swtor MMO players back its such a small niche (star wars fans who love MMO's) that potentially the game would be in a worse position than it is now because it would rely on such a small fan base.

the issue is your making a demand a game type that doesn't sustain, playing swg i can confirm the demand for a star wars mmo is there.

i'm not going to disagree with you about casual fans but many have never played an mmo even in 2017, make a healthy community and organic story through multiplayer with an interactive world that encourages fun casual rp...

decade of dreaming about this type of game :/

No the game needs both, I am not saying Bioware were right by focusing on just story but your idea of multiplayer content first wont work either, the game requires casuals who love star wars games, your idea would drive a number away from this game because they dont want a traditional MMO, even if you got some swtor MMO players back its such a small niche (star wars fans who love MMO's) that potentially the game would be in a worse position than it is now because it would rely on such a small fan base.

It depends on what you're after in a game. I'm not very happy for example that in town you will be in first person view exclusively and out of town you wear your javeling suits. Personally I like to customize my characters and have a decent or better character creator. This approach would indicate that Anthem is stepping away from that.

Everybody's javelin suits will be based around the same things so customization will be limited to those suits. I have a hard time getting excited about that. Also the loot system seems to be very much built around random drops. And I am really going to be interested to see how they are going to monetize the game. Will they continue down the road of gambling packs and more aggressively so? I don't see them charging a sub for a solo game with co-op group content (or vice versa).

So at the moment I'm more interested in the other SW games that are being developed at the moment.

I find most of you scummy and self-absorbed, and as a rant can only be made by a child, I also assume (whether wrong or not) that most of you are worthless.

Well done.

You've now just forced EA/Bioware to spend $Millions on Forum Irony Overload Protection.

Money that should be spent on content - like Story.

All The Best

Ultimately, if you attacking would like to have a logical conversation on why this game is better when Single player content is the focus and not multiplayer I would prefer that.

Because in Single Player content we don't have to deal with you?

Just a guess.

All The Best

What makes you think I'm subbed? Sad part is I would like to be.

The fact that you spent the first half of this thread bragging how great you must be because other people pay your Sub for you.

All The Best

MULTIPLAYER GAMES NEED TO FOCUS ON MULTIPLAYER CONTENT FIRST!

 

MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAMES THAT AREN'T MASSIVE AREN'T DON'T MAKE SENSE AND DIE

You'd be surprised what % of the total play time of a character is spent alone in MMO. When games where harder people used to group way more. In 2006 a study showed that in WoW players where grouped 30%40% of their time.

Since the MMO started targeting the more casual gamer, the majority of play time is spent... alone. Can't find the source but think it's north of 70% now.

Regarding SWTOR story wise in SWTOR it's the minority that do the content grouped.

Regarding the heroic, with the current power of the companions, even with the bonus of playing grouped, most players do them alone.

The only part players do group is indeed PvP, FP, and OPs. OPs counts for like 5% of the player base. Leaves us with PvP and FPs that's at best 25% of the play time.

All in all MMO players want to be able to interact with others and group from time to time although the majority of the time is spend alone. Hence why you need both single player content and multiplayer.

On paper people like to group, though only with friends and people they are used to play with. Then the level systems too often prevent grouping conveniently, even at level cap regarding gear disparities. Finally there's the issue of schedule vs real life constraint and lack of proper communication tools.

All in all while MMO needs grouped content, any MMO without enough single player content will die.

You'd be surprised what % of the total play time of a character is spent alone in MMO. When games where harder people used to group way more. In 2006 a study showed that in WoW players where grouped 30%40% of their time.

Since the MMO started targeting the more casual gamer, the majority of play time is spent... alone. Can't find the source but think it's north of 70% now.

 

Regarding SWTOR story wise in SWTOR it's the minority that do the content grouped.

 

Regarding the heroic, with the current power of the companions, even with the bonus of playing grouped, most players do them alone.

 

The only part players do group is indeed PvP, FP, and OPs. OPs counts for like 5% of the player base. Leaves us with PvP and FPs that's at best 25% of the play time.

 

All in all MMO players want to be able to interact with others and group from time to time although the majority of the time is spend alone. Hence why you need both single player content and multiplayer.

 

On paper people like to group, though only with friends and people they are used to play with. Then the level systems too often prevent grouping conveniently, even at level cap regarding gear disparities. Finally there's the issue of schedule vs real life constraint and lack of proper communication tools.

 

All in all while MMO needs grouped content, any MMO without enough single player content will die.

The key lies in offering various game play variants. Different types of people flock to MMOs for different reasons. Not having enough variation will cost you players. Focusing on story meant losing a lot of people over time because there was no new group content coming out. The reverse would also be true.

What really caused problems for the game, I think, is the combination of a 2 year drought and then the implementation of GC on top of that. That was just really a big misjudgement and a really stange one at that. It's like putting sand in your car's petrol tank and expecting it to run just fine. People tell you it's a bad idea, but you do it anyway. That's how I see GC.

TThat was just really a big misjudgement and a really stange one at that.

I'm going to guess, that they saw the increase in subscribers and saw GC as a way to retain those subscribers. All of the 5.0 changes essentially locked GC behind a paywall, they removed set bonus gearing from other methods and locked f2p and pref. out of content by removing passes.

I don't even need to be cynical to see the reasoning behind it, I'm also glad it backfired on BioWare and EA.

When they realise that inclusive methods work better than using sticks, they may actually start getting somewhere with improving the health of the population. BioWare are simply viewing players as revenue, which completely contradicts the EA philosophy of;

Players First

Players are the foundation of our success, and we are committed to thinking about players first in everything we

do. Our goal is to build deep, on-going and meaningful relationships with our players. We aim to build these

relationships by creating amazing games and services that deliver long-lasting fun and enduring value, by

connecting with our players across platforms and by delivering flexibility and innovation in our business models.

That statement simply does not match up with the actions taken by BioWare with GC, and the complete lack of flexibility in the face of overwhelming feedback about GC / RNG gearing and many other aspects of 5.0.