Keep in mind also that female warriors may romance and marry Quinn. This literally makes him a sociopath. To serve Baras, he was willing to PRETEND to love you. For years. PRETEND to want to sleep with you. For years. PRETEND to want a marriage. For years. Actually GO THROUGH WITH THAT MARRIAGE. For THREE *********** YEARS. Before he betrays you.

 

There is no redemption from that. Nada.

 

I have no godsdamned clue how any woman could think he's worth anything other than being crucified and set on fire, but SOMEHOW he's got a huge fanbase amongst the ladies as evidenced by that... other thread. With six thousand replies. Are people that naive or are they somehow able to compartmentalize that Quinn is an utter monster just because he's got a sexy accent?

 

I don't get it any more than I get why other women like Arcann. Both characters engaged in openly abusive behavior and tried to kill you. There should be no question of romance after that. I know it is fantasy and to each their own but it doesn't compute for me and I do find it screwed up. And I am female.

 

Oh, and even if you do NOT romance him (I didn't), in the last conversation - after the betrayal and everything - there's a choice to ask him to have your children if you're a female SW. Which is all new levels of screwed up IMHO.

Edited September 16, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

I don't get it any more than I get why other women like Arcann. Both characters engaged in openly abusive behavior and tried to kill you. There should be no question of romance after that. I know it is fantasy and to each their own but it doesn't compute for me and I do find it screwed up. And I am female.

 

Oh, and even if you do NOT romance him (I didn't), in the last conversation - after the betrayal and everything - there's a choice to ask him to have your children if you're a female SW. Which is all new levels of screwed up IMHO.

 

This is even worse, too. Quinn is just a sociopath, but Arcann goes above and beyond that. He's personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of trillions of people across the Galaxy. He is, fictionally, literally the worst perpetrator of genocide ever.

 

And yet SOMEHOW, loads of people want him to stick his "lightsaber" in them.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Diviciacus

This is even worse, too. Quinn is just a sociopath, but Arcann goes above and beyond that. He's personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of trillions of people across the Galaxy. He is, fictionally, literally the worst perpetrator of genocide ever.

 

And yet SOMEHOW, loads of people want him to stick his "lightsaber" in them.

 

While I will agree that both have betrayed me and nope not romancing him but are the ones that want to romance Arcann any different than the ones that wanted to romance Valiyn?

This is even worse, too. Quinn is just a sociopath, but Arcann goes above and beyond that. He's personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of trillions of people across the Galaxy. He is, fictionally, literally the worst perpetrator of genocide ever.

 

And yet SOMEHOW, loads of people want him to stick his "lightsaber" in them.

 

Millions? Yes. But "Hundreds of Trillions" seems pushing it. Not that that is necessarily acceptable, either, but I don't think the game's story supports the idea that he's killed that level of people.

Millions? Yes. But "Hundreds of Trillions" seems pushing it. Not that that is necessarily acceptable, either, but I don't think the game's story supports the idea that he's killed that level of people.

 

Coruscant has a population of a trillion. Most city worlds do. Even planets that aren't covered in city have double digit billion populations: Karideph is at 88 billion and it's an agricultural planet. The armies of the Republic and Empire were utterly decimated. He's easily killed dozens of trillions.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Diviciacus

Is it? Not every planet is populated like Coruscant, nor does the Swtor establish that the Republic has trillions of soldiers at its command. Both Arcann himself and the lore entry on Saresh suggest the conquest of the galaxy and his subsequent reign of terror cost "millions of lives."

Is it? Not every planet is populated like Coruscant, nor does the Swtor establish that the Republic has trillions of soldiers at its command. Both Arcann himself and the lore entry on Saresh suggest the conquest of the galaxy and his subsequent reign of terror cost "millions of lives."

 

True, not every planet is quite as highly populated as Coruscant, and full-city planets are fairly rare, but populations in star wars are still high double digit billions because of tech advances. Our Earth could hold 80 billion if we were smarter about technology and farming instead of interested in profit, but that's another argument entirely.

 

The bolded part:

 

That's because the writers are idiots and don't realize that an entire galaxy has a GIGANTIC population. You don't defend half the galaxy with a million soldiers. The Soviets reported seventeen million military dead in the Second World War. The Republic and Sith armies are tremendous. The Galactic Empire (of movie fame) had twenty five thousand Imperial-class Star Destroyers in its full navy. Just crew alone is a billion: each ship has a crew of 36,755. That doesn't include staff for the shuttles, fighters, or ground assault troops. It also doesn't include all the OTHER capital and support ships in the Imperial Navy. I literally looked at a single ship class.

 

TL;DR What the writers stick in codices and what the reality of things would actually be are vastly different.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Diviciacus

Be that as it may, I don't think you can just assume different numbers than what the story provides. It doesn't really matter "what the reality would be", if the writers and characters put numbers in the story then that's what we have to work with.

 

Second it's not as if the problem of scale hasn't occurred with other Star Wars products. Did we actually see thousands of Star Destroyers in any of the battles in the original movies? As I recall, in the old EU Ysanne Isard fought the Bacta War with like three Star Destroyers, despite supposedly being in charge of the Empire at the time.

Be that as it may, I don't think you can just assume different numbers than what the story provides. It doesn't really matter "what the reality would be", if the writers and characters put numbers in the story then that's what we have to work with.

 

Second it's not as if the problem of scale hasn't occurred with other Star Wars products. Did we actually see thousands of Star Destroyers in any of the battles in the original movies? As I recall, in the old EU Ysanne Isard fought the Bacta War with like three Star Destroyers, despite supposedly being in charge of the Empire at the time.

 

You can't send your whole military on the offensive, someone has to stick around to maintain control over what you already hold. Especially when you a fascist regime full of people that would love it if your regime was deposed and require a constant blaster held to their head to promote obedience. I believe it was in one of the hand of Thrawn books that one of the former rebels comment 'I don't think we ever really realized how much of their manpower was tied up holding things together until we had to run a galaxy spanning government ourselves'.

 

Of course, that same author had earlier written a book where 300 ancient outdated rust heaps were a huge game changer to the power balance. But I'm not going to complain if Zahn eventually realized how the scale for that kind of government would work.

Edited September 17, 2017 by dcaleb

Even for pivotal battles like Endor that would have crushed the only organized resistance in the galaxy that opposed the Empire? It seems like they should have been able to pull forces away from somewhere for that.

While I will agree that both have betrayed me and nope not romancing him but are the ones that want to romance Arcann any different than the ones that wanted to romance Valiyn?

 

No. I don't think they are different actually...it is still outside my comprehension. I am not judging the people who do this, just saying I truly don't get it and think it is screwed up.

Edited September 17, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

This is even worse, too. Quinn is just a sociopath, but Arcann goes above and beyond that. He's personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of trillions of people across the Galaxy. He is, fictionally, literally the worst perpetrator of genocide ever.

 

And yet SOMEHOW, loads of people want him to stick his "lightsaber" in them.

 

To be honest I don't even get how people keep him around in the game for these reasons, much less want to shag him. No matter what Arcann and Quinn always will die in my game.

Edited September 17, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

This is even worse, too. Quinn is just a sociopath, but Arcann goes above and beyond that. He's personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of trillions of people across the Galaxy. He is, fictionally, literally the worst perpetrator of genocide ever.

 

And yet SOMEHOW, loads of people want him to stick his "lightsaber" in them.

 

My Sith wishes she could have dark side Arcann and rampage the universe together.

But nah! The edgelord just doesn't extend to that level.

My Sith wishes she could have dark side Arcann and rampage the universe together.

But nah! The edgelord just doesn't extend to that level.

 

This is just it, some people's characters probably have kill counts rivaling Arcann's lol

 

I know it's hard for some people to figure out how to separate the player from their characters, but in my case: character-me and player-me are completely different things, morals, goals and personalities.

I have 8 of the things *pokes them with a stick* I have a Sith Warrior who would happily get with Arcann for what and who he is, after she (headcanon alert ding ding) figures out if vitiate being her dad puts them too close to half-sibling-kinda status or not. (her family was decided by me years ago, bit of a shock when kotfe got released to be sure lmao)

I have a jedi knight who gave him a chance to start atoning for his actions, she's a good jedi and would never get attached to him past being a guide and mentor.. and a Sith Inquisitor that put him down like a dog, she wasn't having any challengers to her "I'm the new insane murderous tyrant here!" rulership. My agent is completely infatuated and she doesn't even know why herself she knows it's not a good idea but that doesn't stop her feelings, the rest are a mix.

___

 

Same with Quinn, who the thread is meant to be about. Some forgive, some don't. My sith warrior did not during the actual event/situation thing, but she could not kill him there, and on Iokath she decided a murder for that reason only almost what 9 or so years after it happened was just far too stupid even for a sith, so he got recruited, he'd already spent 6 years in prison or about that, served his time in her eyes so he got a chance at a new leaf.

 

People can dislike which characters they want, and pick stuff they like. This is fiction, not real. Big difference.

This is just it, some people's characters probably have kill counts rivaling Arcann's lol

 

I know it's hard for some people to figure out how to separate the player from their characters, but in my case: character-me and player-me are completely different things, morals, goals and personalities.

I have 8 of the things *pokes them with a stick* I have a Sith Warrior who would happily get with Arcann for what and who he is, after she (headcanon alert ding ding) figures out if vitiate being her dad puts them too close to half-sibling-kinda status or not. (her family was decided by me years ago, bit of a shock when kotfe got released to be sure lmao)

I have a jedi knight who gave him a chance to start atoning for his actions, she's a good jedi and would never get attached to him past being a guide and mentor.. and a Sith Inquisitor that put him down like a dog, she wasn't having any challengers to her "I'm the new insane murderous tyrant here!" rulership. My agent is completely infatuated and she doesn't even know why herself she knows it's not a good idea but that doesn't stop her feelings, the rest are a mix.

___

 

Same with Quinn, who the thread is meant to be about. Some forgive, some don't. My sith warrior did not during the actual event/situation thing, but she could not kill him there, and on Iokath she decided a murder for that reason only almost what 9 or so years after it happened was just far too stupid even for a sith, so he got recruited, he'd already spent 6 years in prison or about that, served his time in her eyes so he got a chance at a new leaf.

People can dislike which characters they want, and pick stuff they like. This is fiction, not real. Big difference.

 

Amen!🤗

Edited September 17, 2017 by Eshvara

This is just it, some people's characters probably have kill counts rivaling Arcann's lol

 

I know it's hard for some people to figure out how to separate the player from their characters, but in my case: character-me and player-me are completely different things, morals, goals and personalities.

I have 8 of the things *pokes them with a stick* I have a Sith Warrior who would happily get with Arcann for what and who he is, after she (headcanon alert ding ding) figures out if vitiate being her dad puts them too close to half-sibling-kinda status or not. (her family was decided by me years ago, bit of a shock when kotfe got released to be sure lmao)

I have a jedi knight who gave him a chance to start atoning for his actions, she's a good jedi and would never get attached to him past being a guide and mentor.. and a Sith Inquisitor that put him down like a dog, she wasn't having any challengers to her "I'm the new insane murderous tyrant here!" rulership. My agent is completely infatuated and she doesn't even know why herself she knows it's not a good idea but that doesn't stop her feelings, the rest are a mix.

___

 

Same with Quinn, who the thread is meant to be about. Some forgive, some don't. My sith warrior did not during the actual event/situation thing, but she could not kill him there, and on Iokath she decided a murder for that reason only almost what 9 or so years after it happened was just far too stupid even for a sith, so he got recruited, he'd already spent 6 years in prison or about that, served his time in her eyes so he got a chance at a new leaf.

 

People can dislike which characters they want, and pick stuff they like. This is fiction, not real. Big difference.

 

I don't think anyone doubts that it's fiction, not real, and that one's character isn't their actual self, even if we may have a Mary Sue or two among the bunch.

 

It doesn't mean that one can't still find the idea of romancing Arcann or Quinn to be screwed up to them, any more than one might find another plot point in a book or film to be screwed up, or not understand why others like it. It's not a commentary on the personal merits of people who think differently, nor is it an edict that they aren't allowed to like what they want. I Just because I personally find these plot points abhorrent doesn't mean I believe that those who like these characters are abhorrent people, or that I think they should be stopped from having their own preferences.

 

I will say that I think it's wrong that the game treats forgiveness in these cases as the light side, ie 'good' choice, because IMHO there are things that aren't forgivable, but they have other LS/DS-labeled choices in the game, I find questionable, too.

 

As for Quinn, my SW was willing to let it go after 6 years - although in a perfect world she would have told Acina she was not willing to work with him and wanted him shipped back to Dromund Kaas. However, then he started in with the flattery, self-promotion and asking for favors again, and it was enough to remind her why she wanted to kill Quinn to start with. My SW also thought he was a coward for not approaching her on Dromund Kaas. Truthfully it would have been the safest place and time for Quinn to ever approach the SW because she was there as a Acina's guest, and it would have been bad form for her to start killing Acina's staff in her backyard.

Edited September 17, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

Isn't what's forgivable different depending on what the individual thinks?

I don't think anyone doubts that it's fiction, not real, and that one's character isn't their actual self, even if we may have a Mary Sue or two among the bunch.

 

I don't know, someone on the forums once said I sought abusive relationships by wanting Arcann. I found that odd.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Eshvara

Isn't what's forgivable different depending on what the individual thinks?

 

 

Yes, but the game does make calls in this respect by making certain decisions LS or DS based. IMHO the decision to kill or keep both Quinn or Arcann should be left neutral, the same way they leave the decision to shoot down Arcann's shuttle neutral. And with Quinn I think that on Iokath, the moment Quinn showed up, the SW should have been given an option to say that they would not work with him and didn't want him anywhere around their territory, as another neutral choice.

Which PC has a body count anywhere nearly as high as Arcann? The highest I can think of is Imperial Agents who helped Darth Jadus with Eradication Day, which results in the death of hundreds of thousands of Imperials. And you could sort of roleplay that one as believing that you have no choice because you can't stop Darth Jadus. Unlike Arcann who is the one who is arguably most responsible for all his deaths. Edited September 17, 2017 by OldVengeance